Realistic loss rates on BOB missions?

[bhunter2112]

I'm not sure what they are but I would love to see this reflected in the AI. Say a german 75 bomber 25 fighter mission over London. What did they typically lose? From my reading usually less than 20% right? I would love to see bombers turn back to base and fighter as well if the area is to well defended. I hate to see AI stay in area if way outnumbered.

any links on the subject?

I hope the AI is good enough - I should not be able to shoot down more than a couple of planes on a BOB mission. What was the best number of "kills" on a single mission in BOB.

[BadAim]

One point I would like to make, that I think many forget is the simple fact that many of us old hands have many thousands of hours of sticktime in sims. The average BOB pilot would be lucky to have hundreds (granted some of the Brits and a good number of the Germans were "old hands" too, but there is no comparison time-wise)
Another thing is the fact that our lives are not in danger here. I don't think we can expect the same kind of difficulty that the real guys had, even though I will readily grant that there needs to be improvement.
I suppose the fact that the sim will probably be somewhat simplified workload wise is another matter as well.
I guess we'll see.

[Avimimus]

One has to be careful on which sources to use when estimating such casualty rates. I've seen propaganda reports repeated in children's books which show the RAF being astoundingly successful on dates where bad weather prevented any sorties. One should also never generalised such rates from a single engagement.

However, there is a very real problem in Il-2 with AI being far too dedicated. In real life most pilots suffered from fatigue, adrenalin and disorientation which meant that the majority of pilots wound up heading home or trying to regroup after just one or two passes. Experienced pilots sometimes ended up in extended dogfights, but usually most pilots got lost and headed back shortly after the shooting started. Just read enough reports.

Starshoy agreed btw. (and no I haven't heard from him since 2002).

[322Sqn_Dusty]

In general losses and victories were blown on both sides.

One source, a Dutch book over the airwar, gave the following information about the start of the BoB:

August 8th, attack on Dover and the Isle of Wight. Luftwaffe loss 28, RAF 20
August 11th, attack Dover and Portland, Lw loss 35, RAF loss 32
August 12th, raid on radar airfields and convoys, Lw loss 48, RAF 31
August 13th, recon on weak spots in UK Defence, Lw loss 47, RAF loss 13

August 15th, Lw loss 76, RAF 31 + 15 destroyed during bombardment.

After roughly ten days the given numbers totaled:

Luftwaffe loss 367, RAF loss 183 + 30 destroyed on ground.

Other numbers:

Replacement aircraft RAF +/_ 100 new a week.
Loss of airman/pilots 154 kia,mia or wounded with only 63 new pilots just from training.

[Friendly_flyer]

What was the best number of "kills" on a single mission in BOB.

The "best number" for Hurricans is an astonishing 7, though that was against Cr.42 and SM 79 in Africa. One of the kills was a wounded Cr.42 crashing into one of the bombers. The Hurricane pilot eventually had to bail out of his bullet riddled plane.

The claim was treated with disbelief by RAF, but later confirmed by a British infantry unit that had ben right below and seen the whole show.