Friday 2010-05-07 Dev. update and Discussion Thread

[Oleg Maddox]

Hi,

I think here is something to discuss :)

No video. Too busy with the next 2 weeks exhibitions and game conference.

[genbrien]

thank you. nice pics as always :)

[Omphalos]

Very Very nice! coloring is on its way to being excellent. =)

Good luck @ the exhibitions Oleg!

[Dano]

Looking great, liking the cliffs in the last pic too, nice to see that they are visible from that sort of distance :)

[Oleg Maddox]

Very Very nice! coloring is on its way to being excellent. =)

Good luck @ the exhibitions Oleg!

Coloring and other effects will be in change probably untill finish :) So don't worry... should be very fine later :)

Colors, contrast, etc still VIP

Il-2 colors and contrast as well as other effects were done (tuned) finally one-two weeks before release. :)
We have more important work to do at first.

[AndyJWest]

Nice looking hangers there, Oleg - the Tiger Moth looks lost inside! I like the 1930s-style houses in the background too. And the clouds look just like the ones I can see out of my window right now.

Don't overdo it again with all these exhibitions and conferences - or if you do, get someone else to drive you home!

[Freycinet]

Very nice screenies, Oleg, thanks for the update.

- Don't know what is going on with the metal skin on that truck in the first screenie, but there are some strange shadows or bumps on the metal.

The hangar is magnificent! - It really looks totally different to the "lego" style ground objects we are used to from other sims. This is a big impressive structure, can't wait to bomb it!

- Oh yes, and flying a Tiger Moth through it.... - Make sure both ends can be opened!

The 110 looks lovely over the Cliffs of Dover. Must have been the one Hess flew over in, since it has no markings... ;)

[AdMan]

new goodies to talk about

I like the grass/weeds in the field, different from the straight grass

what's the vehicle in the first pic?

[Oleg Maddox]

Very nice screenies, Oleg, thanks for the update.

- Don't know what is going on with the metal skin on that truck in the first screenie, but there are some strange shadows or bumps on the metal.



There are still some glitches in the complex lighting. But will be fine sure in final. :)

[Zorin]

Nice update.

But why does the Bf110C-7 have the wrong pitot tube and the extended rudder trim tabs? It jumped at me right away. The same issues like in IL-2.

[No457_Squog]

Looks good!

I hope it can be released this year!

[kestrel79]

thanks for the update!

That metal cage on the first truck screenshot reminds me of a birdcage? Top Secret German messenger birdcage truck?

The colors look MUCH improved from earlier screenshots, going in the right direction which is good to see. And that 110 looks awesome!

[Qpassa]

thanks for the update .
very nice Screenshots

[Robert]

Coloring and other effects will be in change probably untill finish :) So don't worry... should be very fine later :)

Colors, contrast, etc still VIP

Il-2 colors and contrast as well as other effects were done (tuned) finally one-two weeks before release. :)
We have more important work to do at first.


I'm impressed at what's seen here. The lighting... the shadows... the colouring... all look smashing. I can't imagine the final product. Good work Oleg and crew. Thanks for the update.

Good luck at the shows. Will you be featuring BoB at all?

[AdMan]

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/adrock925/shot_20100503_214227.jpg?t=1273243695
I wont hazard a guess at what this artifact is, just ground I suppose

[HB252]

Hi Oleg and teamwork guys!!


Great work again!! :grin: Congratulations!!!

Thx for show us planes :-P

The bf 110 picks is unbelievable!!

Oleg can you say us if we can run the game whit this screenshoots level? (features pc)

Thx again sir!!

[RedToo]

Some early British search lights were on caterpillar tracks ...

The vehicle in the first screen is a barrage balloon truck (I think).

RedToo.

[Zorin]

Hi Oleg and teamwork guys!!


Great work again!! :grin: Congratulations!!!

Thx for show us planes :-P

The bf 110 picks is unbelievable!!

Oleg can you say us if we can run the game whit this screenshoots level? (features pc)

Thx again sir!!

Sorry, but the texture on the Bf110 is as blurred as in Il-2. What is the improvement here?

[RedToo]

Oleg have you seen this thread?

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=14619

RedToo.

[johnnypfft]

I like those bikes standing behind the hangar :cool:

[zaelu]

At this point some AntiAliasing would make wonders...

Please use the latest videocards for screenshots... the incompatibiliti between HDR and AA had been solved long time ago afaik and in the end... AA can give more wow than HDR.

[philip.ed]

Sorry, but the texture on the Bf110 is as blurred as in Il-2. What is the improvement here?

Self-shading, even visible in the canopy if you have good eyes. We don't have that in Il-2.

Oleg, these are nice pictures, but the clouds look too much like cotton-balls IMO from above. From above, I think we should be able to see even more particles on the clouds then what is currently modelled, like this:

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/4794128-lg.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Clouds.JPG

[Zorin]

I said texture.. not texture effects...

[76.IAP-Blackbird]

Ok still my same posting as allways STF nitpickers, lets wait for the final product .. until then lets enjoy Olegs work ;)

[Zorin]

Ok still my same posting as allways STF nitpickers, lets wait for the final product .. until then lets enjoy Olegs work ;)

Exactly, wait for it till it is released and fixing obvious mistakes is so much more complicated. How about you use your brain before posting....

Oleg knows that he needs to appreciate the nitpickers, because otherwise he would be lying when he writes: "most accurate simulation of BoB" or whatever on the back of the box. Cause right now, with a plane (Bf110) cobbled together from three different series spanning 1939-1942 makes it wrong.

[Intz]

Nice atmosphere in first picture:cool:

[thesean]

Ground object screens have always impressed me, but these are the first shots I have seen where everything thing is blended together quite nicely. Lighting effects, atmosphere, colour and bump mapping look great.

Thanks for the update!

[philip.ed]

I said texture.. not texture effects...

Fair point mate, no argument intended ;)

[Icewolf]

if we could have landscape like this, then that would be amazing

[zauii]

Very nice

[Ikarus]

nice work.the best flight sim ever is close to us....
i think we live the old good days when we fly all the night...:-P

[Tree_UK]

Nice work oleg, only 4 more months to go, cant wait!!

[philip.ed]

if we could have landscape like this, then that would be amazing
Haha, great minds think alike ;)

[Oleg Maddox]

1. Some early British search lights were on caterpillar tracks ...

2. The vehicle in the first screen is a barrage balloon truck (I think).

RedToo.

1. most
2. Correct. It is working :) In trasport position for relocation. Howevber I don't know if it will be in release. 2 versions or just one that will work for all situations. Probably two versions of models is more realistic in terms of time limit etc.

[Oleg Maddox]

if we could have landscape like this, then that would be amazing

No, it is overdone by tunings in photoshot or light room or other editor.

[Oleg Maddox]

I said texture.. not texture effects...

The texture is 2 times greater in geometric size then in Il-2. Can you calculater in square?

In future probably you may add own texture and fly only alone without any other AI or online mates, because you computer will be able to calcualte resolution of all things(not just texture, but result of all things arount it) just for one aircraft but not for the hundreds and even not for the 10.

If you will give me real copy of manufacture production drawings that would show pitot in other place or other size, and trim tabs less then made, then I will ask to rework. If just several photos with different details, nothing will be done.

Same for spit. Most if not all fligth manuals have difference to real things. There are early flight manuals schemes and late for one the same aircraft. The early is for the first production series that went in troops. Late - for the whole series. And even in late - not always made the changes of production series. I have even one flight manual with the marks of real thing different to the real, that are done in squadron (as a sample).
The most correct things may say just engineers that were involved in production. I knew just one such old engineer, that died alredy.

Most aircraft already freezed in development and are in tunings of internal structure, engines, etc. In most cases will be no changes before release.

[Redwan]

I have noticed that grass is only visible from close and disapears at a certain distance from the point of vieuw. The hangars of the screens doesnt look like being surrendered by grass but they seem to be placed on a flat texture like in IL2. Maybe higher settings of the graphics (view distance) could solve this little inconvenient.

Same remark for the clouds. The sky looks too empty in the distance and I don't see any visible progress in the cloud's quality compared with IL2. I have hoped that BOB would at least reach the quality level of the Flight Simulator of last year but again maybe it's just a WIP with low quality coulds setting.

The rest is fantastic and even more !!!!!!! and I can't wait to jump in a spitfire or Emil surrendered by grass. By the way, will the grass move with the wind of the propellers ?

[lbuchele]

Most aircraft already freezed in development and are in tunings of internal structure, engines, etc. In most cases will be no changes before release.[/QUOTE]

Great news.:-P

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

The texture is 2 times greater in geometric size then in Il-2. Can you calculater in square?

In future probably you may add own texture and fly only alone without any other AI or online mates, because you computer will be able to calcualte resolution of all things(not just texture, but result of all things arount it) just for one aircraft but not for the hundreds and even not for the 10.

If you will give me real copy of manufacture production drawings that would show pitot in other place or other size, and trim tabs less then made, then I will ask to rework. If just several photos with different details, nothing will be done.

Same for spit. Most if not all fligth manuals have difference to real things. There are early flight manuals schemes and late for one the same aircraft. The early is for the first production series that went in troops. Late - for the whole series. And even in late - not always made the changes of production series. I have even one flight manual with the marks of real thing different to the real, that are done in squadron (as a sample).
The most correct things may say just engineers that were involved in production. I knew just one such old engineer, that died alredy.

Most aircraft already freezed in development and are in tunings of internal structure, engines, etc. In most cases will be no changes before release.


Or in other words, Oleg just said "STFU n00b, I got this sh*t", lol!

[bhunter2112]

looks good - lots of objects for grounds attack. I would love a 2010 release!

[lbuchele]

Sorry, but the texture on the Bf110 is as blurred as in Il-2. What is the improvement here?
I respect your opinion but totally desagree with you.
I think some people just can´t see visual or auditory improvements like others, maybe like the old times when CD take the place of vinil.
Some people just don´t get it : "hey,it´s the same thing"
It´s the only explanation I can accept for this kind of "everything it´s the same" point of view because the changes are so obvious (for the most part of people, I believe)

[Flyby]

Hi,

I think here is something to discuss :)

No video. Too busy with the next 2 weeks exhibitions and game conference.
So Oleg, are you planning to grant interviews or release a little something special for your fans from the gaming conference? Just thought I'd ask. ;)
Flyby out

[Oleg Maddox]

So Oleg, are you planning to grant interviews or release a little something special for your fans from the gaming conference? Just thought I'd ask. ;)
Flyby out

We will speak about many things. But BoB will be shown (if) just for the small auditory.

[Flyby]

We will speak about many things. But BoB will be shown (if) just for the small auditory.
That's great news! Will you at least consider posting a video of the showing? You know everyone will appreciate it. I've already sold my mother-in-law's wheel chair as scrap metal to help finance a new GPU! :D
thanks!
Flyby out

[koivis]

2 weeks

Be sure? :rolleyes:

Jokes aside, nice update. I can really feel it coming together, lots of things seem to be ready indeed. We have yet to see a screenshot of a combat situation (clouds, sea, landscape, aircraft, tracers, damage, fire, smoke etc.) taken at 100% graphic settings and in high resolution... Only one such picture would fill my SoW-needs for a while!

EDIT: also, in post number 9:

But will be fine sure in final.

:D

[Flyby]

Be sure? :rolleyes:

Jokes aside, nice update. I can really feel it coming together, lots of things seem to be ready indeed. We have yet to see a screenshot of a combat situation (clouds, sea, landscape, aircraft, tracers, damage, fire, smoke etc.) taken at 100% graphic settings and in high resolution... Only one such picture would fill my SoW-needs for a while!
Oleg used the infamous "two weeks" in a reply?! :D Well, OK I know I took it out of context too. :) But it's such a classic reply among us Oleg fans!
Flyby out

[Romanator21]

Zorin, maybe what we're seeing is not representative of the final appearance of the skin. The sharpness of the textures can be turned down to increase performance, or is maybe not optimized yet?

Some earlier shots show skins which are much more sharp than in Il-2 at the same camera distance.

As a side by side comparison:

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae325/rboiko1/IL-2%20References/grab0001.jpg?t=1273259489

http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/hurri0012.jpg

It's a huge difference to me.

[Alien]

Lovely! Now I think that the only unphotoreallistic things are sky and clouds. The rest looks like real!

[Oleg Maddox]

Zorin, maybe what we're seeing is not representative of the final appearance of the skin. The sharpness of the textures can be turned down to increase performance, or is maybe not optimized yet?

Some earlier shots show skins which are much more sharp than in Il-2 at the same camera distance.

As a side by side comparison:

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae325/rboiko1/IL-2%20References/grab0001.jpg?t=1273259489

http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/hurri0012.jpg

It's a huge difference to me.

Sharpness of details is a result of the angle under which we may see it. Its how the light is falling on the surface. So the "sharpness" of Bf 110 is exactly the same as on this shot. Just under the other angle.
I remember Ilya has been shown such effect already in the past.

[Oleg Maddox]

Be sure? :rolleyes:

Jokes aside, nice update. I can really feel it coming together, lots of things seem to be ready indeed. We have yet to see a screenshot of a combat situation (clouds, sea, landscape, aircraft, tracers, damage, fire, smoke etc.) taken at 100% graphic settings and in high resolution... Only one such picture would fill my SoW-needs for a while!

EDIT: also, in post number 9:


:D

I don't like to show even what is ready, but not tuned to the eye cundy. You know, always we found some people that din't read notices in dev update.


Today I was almost ready to post such combat pictures, but then found some really bad glitches and decided to do not post. Simply because of things that I told right now above...


There was battle of stukas with spitfires, Fiats G50 in flights, Dornie, He-115, etc...

[philip.ed]

I don't like to show even what is ready, but not tuned to the eye cundy. You know, always we found some people that din't read notices in dev update.


Today I was almost ready to post such combat pictures, but then found some really bad glitches and decided to do not post. Simply because of things that I told right now above...


There was battle of stukas with spitfires, Fiats G50 in flights, Dornie, He-115, etc...

Don't tease us! :D

Oleg, any chance for an update on how clouds will be modelled? Of course everything is WIP, but IMO clouds have never been modelled perfectly in any sim to date; FSX and its add-ons came close, but they still aren't perfect (not that anything is ever perfect ;) ) and with these screens you've shown, there seems to be great potential :D

[Stranzki]

I don't like to show even what is ready, but not tuned to the eye cundy. You know, always we found some people that din't read notices in dev update.


Today I was almost ready to post such combat pictures, but then found some really bad glitches and decided to do not post. Simply because of things that I told right now above...


There was battle of stukas with spitfires, Fiats G50 in flights, Dornie, He-115, etc...

You know that torture is illegal? ;)

[HB252]

you know that torture is illegal? ;)

+10000

[Rodolphe]

...


RAF Fordson Sussex barrage balloon winch tender

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/RAF_Sussex_balloon_winch_tender.JPG/800px-RAF_Sussex_balloon_winch_tender.JPG

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3111/2352945946_48b2af6e65_o.jpg

http://www.bbrclub.org/Winch.jpg


LZ (Low Zone) Kite Balloon

http://www.17balloons.co.uk/pages/page-05.html


1938

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17715





...

[lbuchele]

I don't like to show even what is ready, but not tuned to the eye cundy. You know, always we found some people that din't read notices in dev update.


Today I was almost ready to post such combat pictures, but then found some really bad glitches and decided to do not post. Simply because of things that I told right now above...


There was battle of stukas with spitfires, Fiats G50 in flights, Dornie, He-115, etc...

It´s definitely coming close , don´t you think?
Oleg, do you think a system spec will be available soon?

[Romanator21]

Forgot to mention that today's was a good update. There really is a good sense of scale in these shots. The hangars look enormous, ready to fit a plane! In Il-2 the sizing of objects is right, but one can't really get a sense of how large they really are.

Lighting is excellent, colors are looking great. The clouds in the first and third shots are awesome, pretty much spot on. It looks like they will be pretty big as well. Sky and atmospheric haze looks great. Can't wait to see the dogfight with the G-50s.

I'm wondering, how will high altitude appear in SoW? Il-2 is optimized for low altitude, and as a result, when zooming upward to 20,000 meters in an Me-163, the entire ground surface below me is contained within a circle, which looks pretty weird to say the least :)

[Fafnir_6]

The texture is 2 times greater in geometric size then in Il-2. Can you calculater in square?

In future probably you may add own texture and fly only alone without any other AI or online mates, because you computer will be able to calcualte resolution of all things(not just texture, but result of all things arount it) just for one aircraft but not for the hundreds and even not for the 10.

If you will give me real copy of manufacture production drawings that would show pitot in other place or other size, and trim tabs less then made, then I will ask to rework. If just several photos with different details, nothing will be done.

Same for spit. Most if not all fligth manuals have difference to real things. There are early flight manuals schemes and late for one the same aircraft. The early is for the first production series that went in troops. Late - for the whole series. And even in late - not always made the changes of production series. I have even one flight manual with the marks of real thing different to the real, that are done in squadron (as a sample).
The most correct things may say just engineers that were involved in production. I knew just one such old engineer, that died alredy.

Most aircraft already freezed in development and are in tunings of internal structure, engines, etc. In most cases will be no changes before release.

Hey Oleg,

Would it be possible to have SOW check the mission date when loading the aircraft for that mission and load the corresponding configuration (e.g. early or late). This could be very useful for including such things as gunsight or manifold pressure upgrades over the life of a given variant of an airplane. In BoB, for example, you could have the 1940 Bf109E-3 start with the rounded canopy and then switch to the square canopy in 1941. That way, the evolution of long-serving variants could be accurately modelled using the basic airframe and a palette of equipment upgrades available at different times. For online dogfight or un-dated missions you could just use the latest upgrades for any given aircraft...

...Just a thought. Great update, BTW.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

[ChrisDNT]

"Banana syndrome" for the 110, human eye focale is at about 43mm, so why all those screenshots with great angle when this focale is not needed for these kind of views ?

[JFA2]

Hi Oleg & co, thank you for the update. Keep up the good work!
Sorry if this is an old question, but will the clouds cast shadows to the ground?

[ECV56_LeChuck]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=2277&d=1273240813

Light Rays maybe?
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8285/lightrays.png

[Fafnir_6]

Or in other words, Oleg just said "STFU n00b, I got this sh*t", lol!

Zorin may not win the Nobel prize for diplomatic typing, but his motives are pure. He wants SOW to be as perfect/accurate as it can be.. He should be honoured for that, not mocked.

Fafnir_6

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Zorin may not win the Nobel prize for diplomatic typing, but his motives are pure. He wants SOW to be as perfect/accurate as it can be.. He should be honoured for that, not mocked.

Fafnir_6

Fair enough, I do understand he just wants to make sure corrections are made now before it's too late, but he sure can be rude, and in this case misinformed as well. But I would have made that joke no matter who was on the receiving end, Oleg laid the smack down, lol!

[Il2Pongo]

Zorin may not win the Nobel prize for diplomatic typing, but his motives are pure. He wants SOW to be as perfect/accurate as it can be.. He should be honoured for that, not mocked.

Fafnir_6

I disagree, he is ridiculous and on ignore.

[easytarget3]

Thanks,very good atmosfere, and detail.keep up the great work.

[BadAim]

Spot on, Oleg. I think these shots are freaking beautiful, and do well to show how awesome this sim is going to be. The scale, the detail, the "feel". Just plain old sweet. /fanboi

[zauii]

Zorin may not win the Nobel prize for diplomatic typing, but his motives are pure. He wants SOW to be as perfect/accurate as it can be.. He should be honoured for that, not mocked.

Fafnir_6

True,

But on the other hand, sometimes its getting ridiculous. Most people on these boards may have a huge knowledge about WW2,
however i seriously doubt anyone has any real expertise or understanding of game development even less so about actual coding,
project lead, planning, economy modeling and all the other aspects that goes into making a final product.

Well Oleg has experience within both Game development and Aviation, sometimes people just think a little too much,
we want this sim to be as good as possible and Oleg will make sure that happens.

[dflion]

We are starting to see some good airfield ground scale now, the hangars, vehicles and houses looked great. Liked the Tiger Moth inside the large Hangar and shadow effects from the windows. The Bf110 shot with the cliffs of Dover in background looks very good.

You mentioned in one of the threads showing us a dogfight sequence, that will be really worth waiting for.

Take it easy with your Shows and Exhibitions, we can all see that you are working very hard.

DFLion

[choctaw111]

The grass (among other things) is looking really good.
It seems that there is going to be more than one type of grass?
It seems to me that you are not overlooking any detail, no matter how small.
It is looking VERY good.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Thank You Oleg for the pics. Can see the improvement there when looking at the broader picture ;)

[sport02]

same comment than choctaw111 about grass , apparently not only one type of grass for the map , also wheatfield (screen shot of the next ) week ) . ..etc , perheaps .

[proton45]

Zorin may not win the Nobel prize for diplomatic typing, but his motives are pure. He wants SOW to be as perfect/accurate as it can be.. He should be honoured for that, not mocked.

Fafnir_6

I guess we should all just sit around typing...make it better, make it better, make it better...I dont think it looks good enough yet, make it better. LOL!!!

Well, I for one think that the updates are looking great. Thanks Oleg!!!

[zaelu]

...
If you will give me real copy of manufacture production drawings that would show pitot in other place or other size, and trim tabs less then made, then I will ask to rework. If just several photos with different details, nothing will be done.

Same for spit. Most if not all fligth manuals have difference to real things. There are early flight manuals schemes and late for one the same aircraft. The early is for the first production series that went in troops. Late - for the whole series. And even in late - not always made the changes of production series. I have even one flight manual with the marks of real thing different to the real, that are done in squadron (as a sample).
The most correct things may say just engineers that were involved in production. I knew just one such old engineer, that died alredy.
...

Even today in "computer era" we see manuals for different tools or products in general that mix pictures or info even instructions between different production models and we have to sort it out by ourselves and avoid the errors.

Imagine how sinister will look the debate over how some "GY-345zr rev 2.3" thing from today is not represented accurate in x game or simulation and the proof will be the user manuals or even service manuals, for that matter, that contains info and drawings for 10 revisions of 3 different production models...

So be more relaxed with judging those... it was war... they had no computers... and nobody thought back there you people will be so picky today over a... game simulation of the real thing... mark x.2 :D

[Rodolphe]

...


Even today in "computer era" we see manuals for different tools or products in general that mix pictures or info even instructions between different production models and we have to sort it out by ourselves and avoid the errors.

Imagine how sinister will look the debate over how some "GY-345zr rev 2.3" thing from today is not represented accurate in x game or simulation and the proof will be the user manuals or even service manuals, for that matter, that contains info and drawings for 10 revisions of 3 different production models...

So be more relaxed with judging those... it was war... they had no computers... and nobody thought back there you people will be so picky today over a... game simulation of the real thing... mark x.2 :D

+ 1

Even today Aicraft configurations have a lot of differencies compare to the manufacturer's aircraft manual.




Albion AM463 RAF Refueller


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11/torpy/ps_8.jpg

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=2276&d=1273240802

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Albion.jpg
...

[LukeFF]

Same for spit. Most if not all fligth manuals have difference to real things. There are early flight manuals schemes and late for one the same aircraft. The early is for the first production series that went in troops. Late - for the whole series. And even in late - not always made the changes of production series. I have even one flight manual with the marks of real thing different to the real, that are done in squadron (as a sample).
The most correct things may say just engineers that were involved in production. I knew just one such old engineer, that died alredy.

Very true. I remember when I modeled the He 162 cockpit, the amount of differences between the flight manual and production models was enough to make me quite dizzy. :)

With that said, what "model" of the Spitfire cockpit will be represented in SoW? An early model? Late model?

[Zorin]

I am not here to argue with any of you. If you think I deserve to be on your personal ban list for pointing out obvious mistakes, I can perfectly well live with that.

On the BF 110. There is no need for factory drawings, just a bit of common sense.

The larger and repositioned pitot tube, as well as the extended trim tabs on the rudder were both introduced on the Bf 110 E late series, which were in production during the winter 1940/41 and therefor you just couldn't see a single Bf 110 C/D during Battle of Britain fitted with them, not one.

Additionally, the radio antennas and aerials need to be moved back half a fuselage section to be positioned correctly. That can be proofed by any photograph of the 110 and even more so by the position of the additional oil tank of the D series, as well as the Dackelbauch of the D series. Because right now the rotating ring antenna would hit the oil tank.

But if you don't deem this sufficient prove, so be it, I did my bit.

[Rodolphe]

...

I am not here to argue with any of you. If you think I deserve to be on your personal ban list for pointing out obvious mistakes, I can perfectly well live with that.

On the BF 110. There is no need for factory drawings, just a bit of common sense.

The larger and repositioned pitot tube, as well as the extended trim tabs on the rudder were both introduced on the Bf 110 E late series, which were in production during the winter 1940/41 and therefor you just couldn't see a single Bf 110 C/D during Battle of Britain fitted with them, not one.

Additionally, the radio antennas and aerials need to be moved back half a fuselage section to be positioned correctly. That can be proofed by any photograph of the 110 and even more so by the position of the additional oil tank of the D series, as well as the Dackelbauch of the D series. Because right now the rotating ring antenna would hit the oil tank.

But if you don't deem this sufficient prove, so be it, I did my bit.



Spot On, You are Zorin.



Oleg you need some real copy of manufacture production drawings ? Got one of Bf110 C.


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Bf100C.jpg

...

[Skoshi Tiger]

Come on give the man a break! These planes went through continual change, development and improvement throughout the war. The MkII Spitfire was basically the same as the MK I but incorporated all the improvements of 3 years of development plus a slightly more powerful engine.

Oleg is well within his right to ask for official documentation as the basis for changes to aircraft models, otherwise where would he stop? It will also make people wanting these change do some serious research into what their asking.

I also think that you will have to join the modding crowd if you want every variant of your favourite plane (official or otherwise) available to you.

That diagram is used to describe the lubrication points on the control system (as far as the interweb defines Schmierplan). It has no dimensions or acurate representation of the actual components. I think blueprints would be more useful to base a model on.

Cheers!

[Insuber]

A lifelike ground environment ... and the new grass looks much better, with shades depicting slight undulations of the ground and height differences.

I like also the visible effort to create a complex cloud system, in the Bf110 pic you can see both cirrus clouds and cumulus clouds. The cirrus clouds should be much brighter thou, even at sunset, and so the top of cumuli.
I guess that we should be patient and wait the final result :)

Cheers,
Insuber

[zauii]

I am not here to argue with any of you. If you think I deserve to be on your personal ban list for pointing out obvious mistakes, I can perfectly well live with that.

On the BF 110. There is no need for factory drawings, just a bit of common sense.

The larger and repositioned pitot tube, as well as the extended trim tabs on the rudder were both introduced on the Bf 110 E late series, which were in production during the winter 1940/41 and therefor you just couldn't see a single Bf 110 C/D during Battle of Britain fitted with them, not one.

Additionally, the radio antennas and aerials need to be moved back half a fuselage section to be positioned correctly. That can be proofed by any photograph of the 110 and even more so by the position of the additional oil tank of the D series, as well as the Dackelbauch of the D series. Because right now the rotating ring antenna would hit the oil tank.

But if you don't deem this sufficient prove, so be it, I did my bit.

Seriosuly, do you ever want the game to be released?
Time to quit the nitpicking.. and you can spend 6 months making your own aircraft post-release instead of wimping about every little detail... it's after all a game also.

[Insuber]

Seriosuly, do you ever want the game to be released?
Time to quit the nitpicking.. and you can spend 6 months making your own aircraft post-release instead of wimping about every little detail... it's after all a game also.

+1. Give us the program asap, I can live with the doubt that the Pitot is in the wrong position ... :D

[philip.ed]

Seriosuly, do you ever want the game to be released?
Time to quit the nitpicking.. and you can spend 6 months making your own aircraft post-release instead of wimping about every little detail... it's after all a game also.

But why not have as near a perfect release as you can get? because otherwise, people will whine that it's not what they expected.

[Zorin]

Ok, if that is all fine with you, Oleg please give us a Me262 in BoB, cause people don't care for accuracy anyway....

Really, you lot should start reading what nonsense you are talking here.

[76.IAP-Blackbird]

Don`t know how it`s in your part of the wordl but if you say something like this is right or wrong, prove it with pics or sources.. that`s more usefull than just complaining about details without giving information or references you are refering to.. ;)

[AndyJWest]

Ok, if that is all fine with you, Oleg please give us a Me262 in BoB, cause people don't care for accuracy anyway....

Really, you lot should start reading what nonsense you are talking here.
Some people here actually want SoW:BoB to be released sometime, rather than going over endless debates about minor details that 99.9% of us don't know about anyway. a 100% accurate simulation is impossible. Live with it.

[nearmiss]

It has been said many times recently.

The BOB SOW for all practical purposes is done, except for testing, debugging and cleaning up code items. Along with some graphic refinements and other tweaks, etc.

What is going to be in the BOB as far as objects, maps, planes is long ago established.

At this point I doubt requests will do much good, except for some things that might be code related not content related.

Also, when it is finally released... you are not going to believe the onrush of people that will still not satisfied.

-------------------------------------->> "You can't always get what you want"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj_6_WWUypQ

[Insuber]

Ok, if that is all fine with you, Oleg please give us a Me262 in BoB, cause people don't care for accuracy anyway....

Really, you lot should start reading what nonsense you are talking here.

Well mate, even if you're not by all evidence the world champion of politeness and respect of other's opinions, nevertheless you should understand that life is a compromise, business even more. Perfection doesn't exist, and Il2 story demonstrates that some people are never happy, despite any effort, money and hours that Oleg will throw into the game. I'd rather prefer a 95% accurate game than no BoB at all for another year or two.

By the way, given your deep knowledge (seriously), I suggest that you create your own software house; I will be the first customer of your flight simulation, no kidding, I'll even buy two or three copies.

Peace & love to you, debate closed.

Insuber

[Zorin]

Don`t know how it`s in your part of the wordl but if you say something like this is right or wrong, prove it with pics or sources.. that`s more usefull than just complaining about details without giving information or references you are refering to.. ;)

- any official manual for the C and D series (http://www.luftfahrt-archiv-hafner.de/)
- John Vasco's books on the Bf 110 ( the time and money he spent on the research of the Bf 110 series alone should suffice to anyones requirements )
- Revi publications book on the early Bf 110 series (based on official drawings afaik)

These sources are the closest you will get by todays standards to produce an actual and factual representation of the Bf 110 series.

@the complainers: Dare any of you come complaining about anything that is wrong in the sim in the future. We are presented with content by the developer right here and now, which makes it exactly the time and place to tell them what is wrong. Otherwise they wouldn't need to show the stuff anyway, cause I doubt they need yours "Oooohhhs" and "Aaaaahs" to keep at it. Ann encouraging tap on the shoulder is sure welcome, but we are all mature enough to know that that is not what counts at the end of the day.

[BigC208]

When guys like Zorin bring up valid points like:

"But why does the Bf110C-7 have the wrong pitot tube and the extended rudder trim tabs? It jumped at me right away. The same issues like in IL-2."

This is a good thing. Same as someone catching a spelling mistake on an instrument panel.

As long as it's done respectfull. How many software developers take the time to communicate with their customers as Oleg Does? Oleg is like God in our universe. He is the Creator and should be treated as such, with respect.
Don't treat him like he is purposely doing things wrong. Back your claims up with documents. I'm pretty sure he pays attention and corrects things if possible.

Refrain from making statements out of the blue like "blurry" 110 skin. All that does is irritate the gods. Next thing you know, no more updates and chances we have any input at all. When on a forum treat others as if you where face to face with an adult that deserves respect.

Now I get of my high chair.

Great update by the way. It's coming nicely together. What has always impressed me in Il2 is the balance of the game. Everything feels like it belongs in the game. If you gets that balance in SOW at the cost of maybe less than photorealistic clouds so be it.

All this universe is going to need at some point is more people and animals. What always blew my mind in Il2 was the guys jumping out of the trucks when strafing or the gun crews running away. Watching fuelers, armourers and other ground personel, on the ground, would realy rachet up the immersion. If it can't be done at first because of deadline restraints I understand. Just hoping that at some point in the games developement it becomes available. Anyone remember the Airfix groundcrew sets you could buy for dioramas? Maybe a mod or aftermarket idea.

Keep up the good work, maybe it's time to hire a chauffeur(hint) when you pull all these late nighters and fall asleep behaind the wheel. We need you to stay healthy and be around for at least another 40 years of flightsim developement.

[Xilon_x]

Perfection exists.
Bill Gates invented F16 FALCON micropose he and three men more 'rich world now.
Oleg Maddox would have the capacity 'to become a man more' rich of the world? I think the answer is yes.
Oleg Maddox began to play to make IL-2 Sturmovik is beginning IL-2 Sturmovik was just the original game with the famous Russian aircraft then things have changed and the simulator has' progressed over the years until today.
Today currently IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 is no longer 'just a game but a mix of arcade and tactical simulation sports game for those who do in fact often stunt or air racing.
Oleg Maddox has a place in the world of aviation simulation, but a turning point so strong that many prefer to fly over 'IL-2 Sturmovik that with Combat Flight Simulator 3, which are very different.
In my SOW with Oleg Maddox could reach perfection and to turn innovative to flight simulators.
Starting with BOB and then maybe add other patches like the Battle of the Atlantic or the Mediterranean or battle in Operation Barbarossa, etc.. c.

[123-Wulf-123]

What a bloody nit picking whiner, the game is a Work in Progress do you understand that term?

If the images were perfect, dickheads like you would still find something to criticise just to give yourself a sense of superiority.

All it does is prove you're a knob.

[Igo kyu]

Perfection exists.
The world is perfectly imperfect, but that's about the only case.

Bill Gates invented F16 FALCON micropose he and three men more 'rich world now.
Ha ha ha ha ha.

Microprose is not and never was a part of Microsoft:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroProse

[Zorin]

What a bloody nit picking whiner, the game is a Work in Progress do you understand that term?

If the images were perfect, dickheads like you would still find something to criticise just to give yourself a sense of superiority.

All it does is prove you're a knob.

Thanks for a good laugh. :D

Perhaps the admins could show you the door or do members of the community have to take such verbal abuse?

[Romanator21]

I think you've taken some unwarranted criticism, but let me just respectfully point out that whether or not you're right about the Bf-110 model, I would imagine that it's too late to modify. That would mean reinserting it into the engine, which takes too long for relatively minor work.

However, Oleg and team have released patches with fixes for minor details, and with many things open to third party developers, I can expect things like that to be corrected very shortly.

The most important thing is the core engine which will be a determining factor in the longevity of the game, and which cannot be overhauled like a 3d model.

[Xilon_x]

remember that we are not criticizing.
we are giving advice.
critics are useless.
Councils need to make improvements to the SOW before it exits the market.
before it is too late to seek further improvements.
to enter information counsel to review the history of war movies all of the photos used to help 1c.
Tech Tips are more complicated but more useful to approach the 'possible by simulation to reality'.

[AdMan]

we are critiquing, if you cant take critique you have no place in the world of art in any medium

[SavageBliss]

This may be the wrong forum, however I'm trying to find out why I can't get Il2 FB working on my new system.

Also is SoW a stand alone game or an IL2 mod.

Previously fo rthe past three years I've been flying IL2 FB, with the AAA unified installer. However my new system just wont seem to run the stuff.

Failing all that, is there a new "Best" prop sim out for the new systems?

[Insuber]

This may be the wrong forum, however I'm trying to find out why I can't get Il2 FB working on my new system.

Also is SoW a stand alone game or an IL2 mod.

Previously fo rthe past three years I've been flying IL2 FB, with the AAA unified installer. However my new system just wont seem to run the stuff.

Failing all that, is there a new "Best" prop sim out for the new systems?

Hi mate,

This is neither the right forum nor the right thread, you may want to ask for assistance in the community support Il2 ubi forum, here:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/49310655

If you have Vista on your new system the solution can be simple, make a forum search there. And 1946 is still the best prop sim out there.

Regards,
Insuber

[zapatista]

Oleg,

thx for the update, screenshots look great. the new buildings have good detail and look huge, its great to see them in the right proportions to the other objects. nice detail to have some bicycles parked near them.

Questions:
1) with the fuel truck shown, will some elements on it move and be be animated during refueling ?
2) during initial installation of SoW-BoB, will there be an easy method for beginners to set their monitor FoV to the correct setting for their monitor size, so they from the start of the game see all ingame objects in their correct 1:1 sizes as they are in real life (and have correct visibility for distant objects in the game)
- this could simply be solved by asking the player to enter their "monitor size" during game installation (and some games already do this type of information for resolution, gfx card etc during initial setup), and then BoB options presets for them the "normal FoV" to whatever is right for them from the start of the game (for ex 35 FoV for a 19' lcd, 45 FoV for a 22' and 55 FoV for a 27' lcd). most people now will be using flatscreens, so the viewing distances from the monitors are fairly similar, but for CRT monitors this will be a little different.
- players will then see all ingame objects as "life size", and distant objects like aircraft or tanks on the ground will be the right size and have the right visibility for the right distances to.
- the zoom snap view can stay at 35, and the wide peripheral FoV can stay at 90 FoV (or whatever you are intending for BoB). so people can briefly zoom in during aiming, or snap to wide view to increase peripheral vision during a dogfight and keep track of the enemy.
- people that have a personal preference that is different from "the right FoV for their monitor" can then still go into the preferences if they want to change it, but for most people it will be a nice way to start in a flightsim and see objects correctly

hope you will consider this :)

[vpmedia]

Perfection exists.
Bill Gates invented F16 FALCON micropose he and three men more 'rich world now.


:):):):):):)

[BG-09]

We will speak about many things. But BoB will be shown (if) just for the small auditory.

Hi Oleg!

Please be sure that the president Medvediev will be at the gaming conference in order to see BoB trailer - it is time for the "GREAT PATRIOTIC SIMULATOR" - Sponsored:***From Kremlin with Love for the Russian people***
~S!

[BG-09]

Guys, what do you think about, your vision from the cockpit, to be restricted from the 3D frames of aviator's eyeglasses and 3D oxygen mask? Total immersion in SOW-BoB, ...Jut imagine.

...Or may be first I should have to buy them, then equip myself with them, and then to fly online...: )

~S!

<------BG-09------<<<

[Foo'bar]

Nice update.

But why does the Bf110C-7 have the wrong pitot tube and the extended rudder trim tabs? It jumped at me right away. The same issues like in IL-2.

Fully agree. The long pitot tube and the extended rudder tabs were introduced first in 1941 with 110E type IMHO. Unfortunately I don't have official construction drawings to prove it.

No need to insult each other about that. We're just trying to advert to small facts.

[baronWastelan]

After looking at stars in the daytime at 6Km alt for the past 8 years, I will be joyfull when the worst mistakes are size of pitot tube and rudder tab. :rolleyes:

[Sutts]

Great pics Oleg. The detail on the buildings is excellent and the real shadows inside the hanger really bring things to life.
This is the first time I've seen buildings that actually appear part of the environment.

Nice looking grass too. I think airbases generally kept the grass pretty short on most of the field though.

[Novotny]

I'll probably regret wading into this, but in 'Wings of the Luftwaffe' by Captain Eric Brown there are two pictures of a BF110C-4 (Werk-Nr 2177) which was forced down at Goodwood on 21 July 1940, and you can see there is no extended pitot.

In another picture, a C-4 captured in 1944 does show one. Presumably this was a modification, assuming that the extended pitot, having been added to later series, performed better.

Zorin is merely being 'frank', and as English is not his first language, we should cut him some slack. There are plenty of posters here for whom English is their first language but who still engage in very rude exchanges.

[Xilon_x]

I do not criticize you .............. but I often ask a question?
Who decided that the English 'world language?
maybe everything was decided after the second world war?
This is the list of most languages' spoken in the world.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers


but now with so much technology mankind has not a single language or a machine to translate the 6,500 types of language.

not to invent a new language only world?


ACTUALLY IS CHINESE AND ESPANIOL the FIRST LENGUAGGE IN THE WORLD ENGLISH IS 3 LENGUAGGE IN THE WORLD

[Novotny]

Not suggesting English is the world language at all: my point is that it's not Zorin's native language, and whilst his command of english is indeed superb, he may come across more bluntly than he intends.

He's a nice guy :)

[Foo'bar]

He's a nice guy :)

Indeed. :)

[Pierre@]

The early model of Pitot tube we are talking about, seen here on 3U+JT, of 9./ZG 26.
Although a Bf 110 E (the squared airscoop on the nose is clearly visible on the original photograph), this aircraft retained the "L-shaped" model, previously used on C and D (and maybe B) types.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/PierreAlfaro/110CD_Pitot.jpg

[76.IAP-Blackbird]

Maybe you are right, it`s not easy to write down "only" informations. But to change such minor things like a pitot tube is easier than changing stuff in code or even finishing the game ;)
I always say lets see how the final product will be, if we have a chance to update during development, ok it`s welcomed.

But sorry Zorins comment looked like nitpicking, maybe it was just an informaiton for Oleg ;)

[Pierre@]

The Pitot tube model chosen by Oleg Maddox (...IMHO mistakenly, with due respect, for a Bf 110 C but I unfortunately don't have any "factory" proof, only a lot of photographic evidences...) is this one, straight and slimmer, fitted under the leading edge of the port wing, as seen on 3C+GS of 8./NJG 4:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/PierreAlfaro/110E_Pitot.jpg

According to John Vasco, about the Bf 110 E: "...during the production run, the pitot tube was changed from the original 'L' shape to a longer slimmer mast that protruded forward of the wing leading edge..."

[Skoshi Tiger]

I feel that we should lay the blame for this argument soley on the mangers, designers and workers of the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke, who obviously can't follow the blueprints when making thier aircraft and felt that they need to play around with the design!

You'ld think that if you were going to change the design of something like a pitot tube (measuring airspeed is a reasonable fundimental aspect of aircaft operation) they would document it?

Of course the alied bombing may not haved helped, but you'ld think they'ld keep copies of important information in a number of places, or maybe they just didn't care? Obviously they did not forsee a time 70 years in the future where their lack of forsight would cause arguments!

cheers!

[Zorin]

I feel that we should lay the blame for this argument soley on the mangers, designers and workers of the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke, who obviously can't follow the blueprints when making thier aircraft and felt that they need to play around with the design!

You'ld think that if you were going to change the design of something like a pitot tube (measuring airspeed is a reasonable fundimental aspect of aircaft operation) they would document it?

Of course the alied bombing may not haved helped, but you'ld think they'ld keep copies of important information in a number of places, or maybe they just didn't care? Obviously they did not forsee a time 70 years in the future where their lack of forsight would cause arguments!

cheers!

Well sorry, but no, if every picture and every manual for the period, plus all research material does show the correct pitot tube, antenna positions and trim tabs, there is no reason to blame anyone else but the guy who build the plane model. (And if there is still something not clear, why not ask the community of thousands of people who would help gladly?)

But anyway, it has been pointed out now and that is all I wanted to do. The necessary material can be found in the links I gave in my previous post and the rest is up to Oleg and team.

@Novotny and Foobar: Thanks for backing me up. :)

[Skoshi Tiger]

Sorry for my attempt at humour, I'm Australian and english is not considered our native language (by the English at least) Mate!

I went to that link and unfortunately am not interested in German aircaft enough to pay 30 euros check out the publications in person.

If you own them I'm sure the copyright laws will allow you to reproduce a small portion of the designs for academic discussion (as we're having here!). You never know, if they contain enough detail they may prompt the design team to purchase the said designs for inclusion into BoB or one of the early patches.

Cheers

and keep up the good fight!

[lbuchele]

Hey, Skoshi Tiger, I´m not english too and I´m curious about the meaning of the word "Skoshi".
Can you translate to me?
Thanks,mate.

[Insuber]

Hi Oleg,

Are the clouds WIP? I notice that they are not enough bright on top, at least on my screen.

Clouds and sky usually occupy a vast portion of the screen :), and are are among the most important players in a "photo-realistic" flight simulation.

Cheers,
Insuber

[Zorin]

Made a quick scan from Mr. Vasco's book to prove my point about the position of the ring antenna and aerial.

1. Photograph of a Bf 110 C rear fuselage interior

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/th_Repostioning_2.jpg (http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/?action=view&current=Repostioning_2.jpg)

2. Screenshot with marked new positions

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/th_Repositioning_1.jpg (http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/?action=view&current=Repositioning_1.jpg)

[Flutter]

Long time lurking, first time post.
Nice update Oleg, however, I have trouble with the screenshot of the Tiger-Moth inside the hangar.
The Hangar does not appear to cast a shadow onto the Tiger Moth, and (worse) the Tiger-Moth does not appear to create any shadow on the ground (I would expect a blurry, but darker shadow underneath the Moth. My guess is that the code allows for a maximum shadow strength (all direct light occluded), after which only ambient light lights the object. This works ok. outdoors, but here the result is that the maximum level of darkness inside a building (6 km down a coal mine?) equals the ambient lighting level outside. The whole issue may stem from spending too much time inside hangars though...
Flutter

[Pierre@]

+1, Zorin.
Look also at the "Fliegerdenkmal" pictures on page 138 of John Vasco's book you are mentioning: "Bf 110 C,D and E - An Illustrated Study" published by Classic in 2008 with great profiles by Fernando Estanislau.
They clearly show the D/F loop antenna was positionned between fuselage frames 10 and 11. (By the way, these numbers, 1 to 18, were stencilled only on port side).

[Skoshi Tiger]

Hey, Skoshi Tiger, I´m not english too and I´m curious about the meaning of the word "Skoshi".
Can you translate to me?
Thanks,mate.

As far as I understand it, it's an American corruption of the Japanese word "Sukoshi" or "Little"

"Skoshi Tiger" was the name for the trials of the F-5A fighter during the Vietnam War. Ever since Janes USNF simulators the planes been a favourite of mine. :)

Zorin,

You've convinced me. Unfortunately my opinion means Zip. Hopefully the developers will look into possiblity of an update.

Cheers!

[Rodolphe]

...

The ambulance parked along the hangar, got some similarities with that Austin K2. ;)

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=2275&d=1273240774



http://www.armyvehicles.dk/images/austink2y.jpg


http://newimages.fotopic.net/?iid=11ox2t&outx=0&quality=90&noresize=1



...

[Rodolphe]

...


And to find out another RAF ground support equipment like this oil browser cart standing next of this "delightfull" Tiger Moth.


http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=2278&d=1273240822



http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/OilB.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Defiant1.jpg


...

[Freycinet]

it's fridayyyyy........

[nearmiss]

There may not be an update...

Oleg has gone to some kind of Game developer conference.

[Freycinet]

There may not be an update...

Oleg has gone to some kind of Game developer conference.

Ah yes, he wrote two weeks in his update, 1st page of this thread...

[engarde]

aah the ever present 2 week joke.

pretty much the equivalent of Achy Breaky Heart, really.

remember a song you heard a few times, loved it, then youve heard it so very many times now the thought of it makes you physically ill?

but some moron keeps bringing it up, assuming the hilarity can never end?

yeah.

[gibxxi]

Seeing as I notice that the camouflage texture and insignias are independent of each other will the following be possible?

A real immersion killer on all WWII flight Sims since the dawn of the genre has been the lack of individuality between aircraft of the same type, from the same squadron.

Taking the Hurricane Mk.I screenshots already posted as an example, it bears the code "DT-A" on it's fuselage. As your probably aware, during the BoB, and indeed throughout WWII, the RAF used the first two letters of this code to denote the squadron, and the final letter to denote the individual aircraft from that squadron.

Therefore, will individual aircraft bear different letters to others from the same squadron, i.e:

DT-A,
DT-B,
DT-C... etc, etc.

Not only would add some personalization to the player's aircraft (possibly customizable by them), but it would also lay to rest the "cloned" feeling one gets when viewing multiple aircraft from the same squadron.

If each letter of the alphabet (For the RAF fighters) and all the numbers / rank insignia displayed on the aircraft were customizable by the player, it may also allow WWII historical squadrons to dress up their planes in the way their real-life counterparts were actually presented.

With only 26 letters, 10 numerals (0-9) and a certain number of rank insignia for the German planes, it would not require a massive amount of graphics to do.

Maybe also provide font templates with the mod tools after launch to that people can customize their planes in line with those of their favourite squadron.

I'm not someone who has played any of the other IL-2 titles so I'm unaware if this has been implemented in prior games. Also, I apologize if this has already been suggested.

Seeing as Oleg has already admitted to being a perfectionist, I thought I'd highlight this often neglected area of customization, as I would also welcome such an eye for detail.

;)

Edit: Also, will ALL historically accurate insignia make it onto the German planes? or is this too touchy an issue? I know other developers have avoided this issue in the past by "omitting" certain insignia. I think you know where I'm going with this question. I only ask in the interests of historical accuracy.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Until countries like Germany relax their laws concerning symbols like the swastika I think Olegs company is constrained to restrict symbols in his sims. These countries represent a large part of the market for the sim and it would be bad business if he made it impossible to sell his product in those countries.

[Rant mode=ON]
I personally don't have a problem with seeing these symbols in a historical context, but have had to ban my step-daughters skinhead ex-boy friend from wearing hate symbols in my house (Luckily he's no longer on the scene-hmmm wonder why???). Any Nazi fanboy is a dweeb in my book and needs to get out and get a life and start seeing the value in human diversity rather than blaming everyone else but them selves for their personal failings.
[Rant mode=OFF]

The strange thing is that same laws in Germany used to restrict anti-nazi symbols (maybe they still do???) such as a swastika crossed out by a circle and line as well. Go Figure?

For those interested in historical accuracy I'm sure there will be an abundance of community created skins available.

cheers!

[philip.ed]

gib, if you have played BoB2, it has a multiskin with nearly every skin seen in the BoB. As you say, this multiskin has the individual codes etc of the planes, which is a real immersion factor when playing the sim ;)

[Blackdog_kt]

There are already individual aircraft numbers in IL2, but the rest of the skin in the stock campaigns is usually "cloned" for aircraft of the same squadron. Think of it as the skin being the base for all of the squad's aircraft, with individual stencils applied for the aircraft codes.

As for other insignia, a lot of squads have their own and in many cases these are already represented in IL2. So, thus far i really have no doubt that what you're asking about is going to be included in the new sim as well since it was in the old one to begin with. However, what will really set individual planes apart in the new sim will be the application of weathering on a separate layer.
I guess the base camo/skin will still be the same and each plane will have its own code, but with weathering applied the new planes will look factory fresh while the old ones look worn out, with flaked paint and long exhaust and gun port streaks. In IL2 you have to manually change a skin yourself to include such things, but in the next series of sims the aircraft will age on its own as you fly missions.

For the axis insignia now, the fact that Germany outlaws the use of the swastika means that probably any european distribution of the title will not depict it. As explained before, this is done so that the game can be sold in Germany but there will probably be modifications or custom textures added later on by the users, just like it happened with IL2. As for luftwaffe squadron insignia, there's a guy from the community here in these forums that has taken it upon himself to research each and every one of them in order to ensure maximum historical accuracy.

The short answer about the things you ask for is, we'll get some of it because it was already in IL2 and not having it in SoW would be a step backwards, we'll get some new things too from Oleg's team and their new technologies, community members are providing extra feedback and material to fill in the blanks and whatever you don't get on release someone from the community will probably provide later on. So, sooner or later you'll probably get everything you ask for markings-wise ;)

[gibxxi]

Until countries like Germany relax their laws concerning symbols like the swastika I think Olegs company is constrained to restrict symbols in his sims. These countries represent a large part of the market for the sim and it would be bad business if he made it impossible to sell his product in those countries.

Agreed. I was hesitant in mentioning it, as the discussion of the subject usually descends into a hate-filled slanging match on most forums I've read. But like I said, in the interests of historical accuracy only, i would welcome the immersion factor of their inclusion.

Even an invisible "placeholder" so enterprising graphics artists can add it after-market will suffice. As several have commented, these things usually get added by the 3rd party modders quite quickly so it's not a big issue for me.

I noticed the unique squadron codes in BoB-II, yes, that must be the only time I've seen it modeled from the box. Nice touch. I come from an on-line WWII MMO that will soon be shutting it's doors for good, so up until this point, I've never seen the need to purchase a commercial flight sim. That's all going to change now, and even if that wasn't the case, this sim looks so damn beautiful, from the screens that have already been posted, I'll be buying it whatever the price is. The only other sim I've ever purchased was European Air War, simply because it had a "BoB" campaign. I'm English, and fiercely patriotic about the BoB in general, so SoW is like a dream come true for me.

:)

Nice inclusion with the Matilda Mk.II (favourite tank) as well, but trim down those Mudguards Oleg, those were very seldom used in practice, most commonly replaced with shorter versions, or removed altogether.

I also notice from the recently posted video, that the Dornier Do-17 is equipped with Daimler Benz DB-601's. From my research, the Do-17Z and Do-217E used the BMW-801A 1,580hp, 18-cylinder radial engine, an earlier version of the engine used in the Fw-190A. Not sure if this is an oversight, or something that was present on the original blueprints, but i do remember reading about another aircraft (might of even been the Fw-190) that was originally going to be fitted with DB-601's, but because of a shortage in DB-601 engines due to Bf-109 production, it too was converted to using radial engines at the design stage.

Edit: Just had a look in one of my WWII aircraft books, and it states that initially, the Do-217 was fitted with the Do-215's DB-601 in-line engines, but that the fitting of the BMW 801 radial transformed the aircraft. Quite what they mean, I don't know, but I would assume they mean much better performance with the BMW-801's.

Regards.

[Flyby]

I look forward to the super-duper cloud detail. As a mission builder, will I be able to set cloud ceilings in SoW-BoB (and maybe set turbulence too)? I think it would be great to have a couple of flights of fighters sneak across the channel, flying under low clouds to deliver a surprise attack on an enemy airfield. Be nice to duck into a low cloud layer. Will it be possible set this in the mission editor?
thanks!
Flyby out
PS Oleg, how's the game conference going. Wouldn't hurt my feeling if you posted a video update showing what's going on. ;)

[SaQSoN]

I also notice from the recently posted video, that the Dornier Do-17 is equipped with Daimler Benz DB-601's.

What makes you think, it is Do-17?

From my research, the Do-17Z and Do-217E used the BMW-801A 1,580hp, 18-cylinder radial engine, an earlier version of the engine used in the Fw190A.

May be, you should research more, to find that Do-17Z was equipped with Bramo-323 9-cylinder engine.

[gibxxi]

I stand corrected on the Do-17Z

:)

Regards.

[Pierre@]

And a "Dornier Do 17 equipped with Daimler Benz DB-601s" ...is a Do 215 :)

[gibxxi]

So i just found out. just saw the screenshots of the Do-17Z in one of the other threads.

Never seen any photos of the Do-215 and i've been a WWII buff for a long time. Guess you learn something new every day. That'll teach me to panick-post, lol.

:)

Regards.

[Rodolphe]

...


These magnificient Dornier Do 17Z and Do 215B should be available in SOW.


You guys remember those 2005 screenies.

http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-content/do1720rap.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-342-0603-25%2C_Belgien-Frankreich%2C_Flugzeuge_Dornier_Do_17.jpg




http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-content/do-215_2_1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Do215_2.jpg

;)

[gibxxi]

One such group to use the Dornier Do-17 were 9/KG76, a squadron that had practiced and perfected extremely low-level attacks using the aircraft during the battles for France and the low countries.

There is a painting called "Eagle Day" that depicts a burnt-out Do-17Z of KG76 being overflown by a Hurricane of 111 squadron who were also in action along with 615 squadron on the day.

[Freycinet]

There may not be an update...

Oleg has gone to some kind of Game developer conference.

Ah yes, he wrote two weeks in his update, 1st page of this thread...

aah the ever present 2 week joke.

pretty much the equivalent of Achy Breaky Heart, really.

remember a song you heard a few times, loved it, then youve heard it so very many times now the thought of it makes you physically ill?

but some moron keeps bringing it up, assuming the hilarity can never end?

yeah.

Thanks for calling me a moron.

Let me just quote Oleg in the first posting of this thread:

No video. Too busy with the next 2 weeks exhibitions and game conference.

So easy to call somebody a moron from behind your computer screen. I´d punch you in the face if you did it face to face, but you´re not the kind of person who would dare that, obviously...

[AdMan]

lol @ liking "Achy Breaky Heart" for even a millisecond

[Igo kyu]

lol @ liking "Achy Breaky Heart" for even a millisecond
Right on, atrocious song from the first hearing.

[engarde]

Thanks for calling me a moron.

Let me just quote Oleg in the first posting of this thread:



So easy to call somebody a moron from behind your computer screen. I´d punch you in the face if you did it face to face, but you´re not the kind of person who would dare that, obviously...

haaa hahaha overreact much?

not familiar with the two week quip done to death with il2 hmmm?

and, for your info, in my particular job, people try and punch me on a daily basis usually as im the last kind of person they want to see right at that time, but im still here ;)

and give the e-tuffness a break eh?

lets get back to aeroplanes.

[Freycinet]

haaa hahaha overreact much?

not familiar with the two week quip done to death with il2 hmmm?

and, for your info, in my particular job, people try and punch me on a daily basis usually as im the last kind of person they want to see right at that time, but im still here ;)

and give the e-tuffness a break eh?

lets get back to aeroplanes.

sorry, where you come from it is probably normal to call others morons (sad culture you come from, but you cannot help it if that is your culture). It isn't normal where I come from.

[AdMan]

ME WANT UPDATE! :-x

:-P

[Mango]

Me want release date !!

[Redwan]

Me want a date :-p

[philip.ed]

Me want cookies now!

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061119225956/uncyclopedia/images/6/67/Hitler_aufgeregt.jpg

[=KAG=Bersrk]

Made a quick scan from Mr. Vasco's book to prove my point about the position of the ring antenna and aerial.

1. Photograph of a Bf 110 C rear fuselage interior

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/th_Repostioning_2.jpg (http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/?action=view&current=Repostioning_2.jpg)

2. Screenshot with marked new positions

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/th_Repositioning_1.jpg (http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/?action=view&current=Repositioning_1.jpg)

@ Zorin and others:

1. Main problem is not in C-7 and stuff... Problem (or not - from different points of veiw) is that C-4 (and C-7. made from C-4) was NOT a main and usual model of Bf110 in Battle of Britain. It was actually a war of C-2 and D-0/3 :) Most part of C-4 gone for night fighter regiments. Loss lists of ZG2, ZG26 and ZG76 together with losslists of V./LG1 confirm that.

2. About aircraft itself. As far as I know, C-7 was chosen by MG for fill the "Bf110 Jabo" gap with minimal reworks. And, it was done with elements of "early" or "factory built" Bf110C-7's, and with elements (like Pitot tube and enlarged trims) of "late" or "field" Bf110C-7's, wich were actually mainly Bf110C-1/2/4 "in virginity". There are many photos, BoB period, of Bf110C-7 with VERY different upgrades, like armored windglass, armorplate for pilot e.t.c.

3. Yes, making Bf110D-3 for "Jabo role", wich is closer to history, would be great, but it would need to add some Bf110D-7 elements and rework rear fuselage section. If that would be done, it would need a several weeks to do. All we know, that time is very strickt. So...

4. Let we stay away from pitot and trims on Bf110C-7. We should better ask to show it on Bf110C-4 image. THAT would be critical.

5. Ring antenna, really, must be moved back to 1/2 of fuselage section.

[fireflyerz]

:grin:LOL Excellent , best laugh all day.

Me want cookies now!

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061119225956/uncyclopedia/images/6/67/Hitler_aufgeregt.jpg

[philip.ed]

:D

[Zorin]

...

2. About aircraft itself. As far as I know, C-7 was chosen by MG for fill the "Bf110 Jabo" gap with minimal reworks. And, it was done with elements of "early" or "factory built" Bf110C-7's, and with elements (like Pitot tube and enlarged trims) of "late" or "field" Bf110C-7's, wich were actually mainly Bf110C-1/2/4 "in virginity". There are many photos, BoB period, of Bf110C-7 with VERY different upgrades, like armored windglass, armorplate for pilot e.t.c.

...

Yet there can be not one photo that shows these features, large pitot tube and enlarged trim tab, because they were introduced with the E series after the BoB. Just to make that clear. Even though there were a number of modifications, these were not among them during BoB and therefor are WRONG.

[robtek]

@Zorin
it seems that you are right, but realistically you can hope for a change in a later patch!
Right now it is very more important to deliver a finished game!
Those details are important for screenshots and movies, not for the regular gameplay.

[Zorin]

@Zorin
it seems that you are right, but realistically you can hope for a change in a later patch!
Right now it is very more important to deliver a finished game!
Those details are important for screenshots and movies, not for the regular gameplay.

All I hope for, at this stage, is an acknowledgment that they made mistakes and are willing to fix them.

I respect Oleg's stance that he wants prove via official documents, but in this case it is like I said: "The sky is blue." and he asks for official documents to prove it. It is a plain fact, dictated by logic, that features that where first build in the winter 1940/1941, can't be found on a summer 1940 plane.

[=KAG=Bersrk]

All I hope for, at this stage, is an acknowledgment that they made mistakes and are willing to fix them.
..It is a plain fact, dictated by logic, that features that where first build in the winter 1940/1941, can't be found on a summer 1940 plane.

1. Good point.

2. Agree.
First Bf110C-7 (factory built - only 39 airctafts) - produced from july 1940 to september 1940.
First 8 Bf110E-2 produced in october 1940, and largely went in series on december 1940.

At the same time, around december, most of survived C-2's, C-4's were repaired and upgraded to C-7, and got it name in official documents.

I accept MG position about Bf110C-4. It was not a main "zerstorer" of BoB, but... It is chosen, and "let it be".
From september 39 to july 1940 there were 359 Bf110C-2 built. Also, ~200 Bf110D-0/1/2/3 were built from march to november 1940. And we must not forget about 50 new Bf110E-1, wich saw operational in october - november 1940 during Battle of Britain. And all these bunch are against "dead-end model" Bf110C-4, produced from may 1940 to september 1940, in number of 155 aircrafts.

I can list a several ZerstorerGruppen, wich operated and lost in action mainly Bf110C-2, or Bf110D, up to 80% of all losses.

[Zorin]

1. Good point.

2. Agree.
First Bf110C-7 (factory built - only 39 airctafts) - produced from july 1940 to september 1940.
First 8 Bf110E-2 produced in october 1940, and largely went in series on december 1940.

At the same time, around december, most of survived C-2's, C-4's were repaired and upgraded to C-7, and got it name in official documents.

I accept MG position about Bf110C-4. It was not a main "zerstorer" of BoB, but... It is chosen, and "let it be".
From september 39 to july 1940 there were 359 Bf110C-2 built. Also, ~200 Bf110D-0/1/2/3 were built from march to november 1940. And we must not forget about 50 new Bf110E-1, wich saw operational in october - november 1940 during Battle of Britain. And all these bunch are against "dead-end model" Bf110C-4, produced from may 1940 to september 1940, in number of 155 aircrafts.

I can list a several ZerstorerGruppen, wich operated and lost in action mainly Bf110C-2, or Bf110D, up to 80% of all losses.

See, this is what I meant with well of wisdom. Oleg has it right here at his disposal and he isn't making good use of it, apparently. If he only had asked the right questions prior to the point of choosing the aircraft types and starting their build process ...

[=KAG=Bersrk]

In MG, JaBo version of Bf110 was not even in plans, as well as I know. And much later, when BF110C-4 was made, MG decided to have JaBo with MINIMAL REWORK.

Sometimes, I think that it would be better not to have JaBo in release, but in first patch/addon we would have really new modelled Bf110D-3, JaBo with enlarged fuselage.

[Rodolphe]

...


Well, Thanks to "The Few", members resources, we've got those "nitpicking details" :rolleyes: fixed.

Great ! Oleg's team care about us. :grin::grin:



ZG 26 "Horst Wessel"

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=3073&d=1282307881



http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=3038&d=1281706367

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