Oleg's Sims 10 years from now...

[furbs]

been thinking about flight sims and what might change in 10 years from when SOW is out.

I think we will see true 3D with photo-like images on a large curved monitors...i cant wait:) ...what do you lot think we might see?

[SlipBall]

The sky's the limit ten years out:cool:...

[fireflyerz]

The whole world will be one giant ww2 flight sim , Oleg will oversee all gameplay as Emperor and we will be his loyal goonies ever eager to please him by shooting down as many enemy AC in an 8 hour shift without going into overtime.

[Avimimus]

No, us Ударник won't be able to conceive of such a thing as overtime!

[Skoshi Tiger]

In 10 years time I will be 55 and will have been forcibly interned in a "Lifestyle Village" by my children, in-between nutritious meals of Soylant Green, I’ll will sit on my Harley Davidson Low Rider (flueled by ethanol distilled from fermented Soylant Yellow -the only useful thing you can do with the stuff) on my allocated square of artificial lawn and continue to rev the engine until someone complains about the noise. Then I will and pull them the Bird!

That being accomplished, I will go inside, don my leather flying helmet (containing synaptic interfaces) and play SOW (WITHOUT Mods!!!!!), through the InterWeb, against other Old Farts until the nurses come and sedate me!


Life will be Grand!

[Modding_Monkey]

In 10 years time I will be 55 and will have been forcibly interned in a "Lifestyle Village" by my children, in-between nutritious meals of Soylant Green, I’ll will sit on my Harley Davidson Low Rider (flueled by ethanol distilled from fermented Soylant Yellow -the only useful thing you can do with the stuff) on my allocated square of artificial lawn and continue to rev the engine until someone complains about the noise. Then I will and pull them the Bird!

That being accomplished, I will go inside, don my leather flying helmet (containing synaptic interfaces) and play SOW (WITHOUT Mods!!!!!), through the InterWeb, against other Old Farts until the nurses come and sedate me!


Life will be Grand!

sedate or seduce? ;)

[AndyJWest]

Soylant Green is People!

(if you don't get this, watch the movie...)

[Dano]

(if you don't get this, watch the movie...)

But you've just ruined it for me!!!!

[virre89]

Honestly in 10 years the flightsim market might be dead.
Let's just hope SoW does well enough.

It's a niche within a niche.

[Feuerfalke]

Honestly in 10 years the flightsim market might be dead.

The funny thing is, experts said that 10 years ago, just before IL2 and LockOn were released. :rolleyes:

[Skarphol]

If one in 2001 were asking "With the new, astonishing Il-2 flightsim in mind, what will Olegs flightsim look like in 9 years from now?" Well, the correct answer was "Pretty much like Il-2 as it is, but with more maps and more planes".
It is obvious that 9 years is not enough time to make giant leaps in flightsim development. Maybe 10 years are?

Skarphol

[furbs]

im thinking more about the hardware...what changes will we see there?

[HFC_Dolphin]

In 2 weeks+10 years+2 weeks, we'll be flying in full virtual environment, feeling everything :-)

[Skoshi Tiger]

In 2 weeks+10 years+2 weeks, we'll be flying in full virtual environment, feeling everything :-)

I hope not!

I don't think I want to be shot, burned, crushed and fall realisticly to my death five times a night.

It might just put me off flight sims for life! :(

cheers!

[IceFire]

im thinking more about the hardware...what changes will we see there?

Unless something radical happens we will see a continual evolution of hardware. A faster CPU, more cores, faster GPU probably with more cores there, some merging of CPU and GPU, etc. But all of this just equals greater performance for a cheaper cost with each evolution.

Next generation of monitors will probably be OLED based. You can do some fancy stuff with that potentially including curved surfaces and transparent monitors (until they are turned on). But it's the "same" as before.

So end result is a more graphically rich and more sophisticated (physics, sound, etc.) sim but nothing ground breaking. It's always just +1.

[Skarphol]

Come to think of it; I think 3D will be very well inkorporated within the next few years, either as 3D monitors, or with VR-glasses.

Skarphol

[Igo kyu]

transparent monitors (until they are turned on).
I remember them.

It was 1983, they were green tinted monochrome LCDs with no built in backlight, I think maybe the resolution was 80 columns of characters by 25 rows, there may not have been a pixel resolution at all, but if there was it was almost certainly 320 * 2xx. Sort of nice for the time, but expensive, not that big (12 inches diagonally? less?), and needed a strong lightsource behind them.

[Insuber]

Soylant Green is People!

(if you don't get this, watch the movie...)

Wasn't that Soylent Red instead ? Watched it too many years ago, but some sequences are memorable ...

Ins

[AndyJWest]

Wasn't that Soylent Red instead ? Watched it too many years ago, but some sequences are memorable ...

Ins
Nope. The preferred food of the masses was Soylent Green: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green

Talk about 'being green' and 'recycling'. ;)

Back on topic, I suspect that as others have suggested, the biggest change is likely to be with display technology, though what form this will take is anyone's guess. Any 'all round' display is going to have problems with binocular vision, unless combined with shutter-type goggles, so a system based on a separate 'screen' for each eye - again goggle-based, might make more sense. On the other hand, they might just implant a microchip into your optic nerves...

[HFC_Dolphin]

I hope not!

I don't think I want to be shot, burned, crushed and fall realisticly to my death five times a night.

It might just put me off flight sims for life! :(

cheers!

Hehehehe, well, imagine a flight sim using some helmet/glasses where we see everything in photo-realistic 3D and hear almost-real sound.
That would really make us feel like it's real :)

Of course it will be totally prohibited to people with heart problems :P

[wannabetheace]

I expect we have universal simulation where we can not only pilot but also do tank, ship and FPS like AllInOne sim. even you can change to strategy game in real time and play like famous generals and go to one unit and fight like a regular private :). And the sim is 24h seven days on server :cool: or more.
SOW will be the only the part of airwar section of this AIO sim. On top of that we will use our hands in real time to touch button or instruments even flight stick and probably it will work like IR-Track but more complex. So that we can pilot and drive other sims like ship, tank.. etc
That is just my 2cents or ma hope:rolleyes:

[Erkki]

I expect we have universal simulation where we can not only pilot but also do tank, ship and FPS like AllInOne sim. even you can change to strategy game in real time and play like famous generals and go to one unit and fight like a regular private :). And the sim is 24h seven days on server :cool: or more.
SOW will be the only the part of airwar section of this AIO sim. On top of that we will use our hands in real time to touch button or instruments even flight stick and probably it will work like IR-Track but more complex. So that we can pilot and drive other sims like ship, tank.. etc
That is just my 2cents or ma hope:rolleyes:

That has been tried - in the WW2OL. The problem is that everyone wants to either be the hero, actually do some work for the win or just kill as much and as quick as possible. When the rosters are full, that means that there are nothing but snipers in the inf and Tigers vs. Churchills(or whatever are the current best tanks). The game has to artifically force the players to roles - and this happens with "levels". You can guess if I was pissed when I was told I'd need to get at least 30 kills on sorties I would RTB, with Bf-110C(no bombs), against 50-50% Spitfire/Dewo and Hurri/Hawk75, before they'd let me drive a 109 - the E1 with 4 machine guns only.

There has to be another way.

Besides, trying to do everything usually fails pitifully, and that goes to every game that has tried it. Compromises have to be made. How many simmers would like compromises to be made on flight and damage models, graphics, sounds and moreover maps and plane numbers? They still dont have, after 8 or 9 years, parachutes in WW2OL, and pilots' brains are in the left leg. Not to speak about only bombers being A20(the C, this beast they have from the very beginning of the war) and Blenheim for Allies and He111 and Ju 87 for Germans. I wont go to all the silly stuff that goes in the ground war, the modellings themselves are one thing, how the frontline moves, base capture and how supply is modelled another. :rolleyes:

[AndyJWest]

+1 to what Erkki says.

Any attempt at producing a 'realistic' universal simulation is likely to run into the fundamental problem that issues of scale and timing mean that most of the time, most participants will be sitting around waiting for something to happen, rather than actually being in combat. Real war is like that...

[whatnot]

I tried WWIIOL too a while back and accompanying the poor graphics I was thrown in the middle of infantry battles with no coordination whatsoever but just a bunch of guys running left and right trying to get high scores. I'm sure that it can be a better experience by playing with a specific group of people, but I'm disappointed that the game itself doesn't enforce that structure.

The challenge I guess lies with the fact that majority of the games are either 'casual gamers' that want to spend max 5 mins to learn a game and then then play an action / entertainment packed session for 30 mins or so every now and then. And then and the other part of the majority are the youngsters who's enjoyment of the session highly depends on the score they managed to acquire and the spectacular graphics them (and the casual gamers) are surrounded with.

I for one (being an old geezer) would be happy if I could enjoy a very immersive, realistic and structured experience. And I'd be willing to cut down on the 'hollywood factor' in order to participate in a well structured, organized and realistic battle experience wether that takes place on the ground or in the air. That I guess is possible atleast to some extent through whatever clan activities, tournaments etc. But I don't really have a schedule that would allow me to be gaming at a specified time and date to gain that so I unfortunately need to go against AI most of the time.

What I would like to see is a WWIIOL kind of game that you could join whenever you want and when you join you'd be automatically assigned to a certain group that in advance plans what they're doing and then carry out those plans as part of a bigger operation which is a part of a dynamic campaign. And if you'd go solo or disconnect whenever you feel like it you'd get penalized to keep the dicipline atleast to some level.

However that is not the optimal money making machine for the gaming industry so I doubt that I will experience such a thing unless I'll get organized to some clan or whatever and try to arrange my schedules accordingly, but even then the it would be mini-scale battles of around 64 players.
But on the other hand I'd be quite ready to pay for such an experience a monthly fee (being an old geezer who already has a steady income :)) if someone would be able to facilitate such a gaming platform and structure and I think I'm not alone on the planet. Wether there is a critical mass of people like me for that, I don't know.

I'm happy to see however that there are projects like DCS and SOW with some ambition towards joint forces operations atleast on a longer term so maybe we'll have some decent platform in 10 years that I can put all my money into to get the perfect gaming experience whenever I have the time for it.

Thumbs up for that gaming fantasty! :cool:

[AKA_Tenn]

WWIIOL is a sandbox game, its up to the people playing to enforce any sort of structure, there's no way, short of turning the game into a game like Star Wars: Rebel Assault II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Rebel_Assault_II_-_The_Hidden_Empire), of forcing people to follow orders.

[Slechtvalk]

http://acorntoyshop.com/images/products/3/WoodenPlane_8.jpg

If this will happen:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/apr/11/peak-oil-production-supply
US military warns oil output may dip causing massive shortages by 2015

[hellbomber]

in about fifteen years we will be seeing the first cube memory processors.. they will be 3 dimensional architecture that will process and store data on the same nodes..you wont have a hard drive you wont have a processor or memory or gpu.. you will just have a cube chip that fits to your mother board thats it... your cube processor will be able to dynamically change from processing to rendering graphics as needed.. and will store about 1000 terabytes of data.. i should know im on a team that's working on patents right now..

[virre89]

Speaking of the future..

..the ultimate game doesn't have to be a multi-sim of the future. Who said its gonna work out great with a combined tank, flight , inf sim all in one?

First of all you could look at the issues with the concept itself, you're striving to recreate something realistic yet you'd have to have thousands
of people participating at the same time something like an MMO if there are gonna be tanks, planes etc on a very large scale or you'd get an unpopulated world with nothing but landscape.

Secondly the workload for a project like that would be unrealistic and insane to both maintain and create, if the quality bar is --> like BOB, ARMA.
There is no chance in hell to create a fps experience like say Arma or RO on a scale of i.e free-roam Europe and even less so combined with a flight sim of Bob's scale.

An professional detailed map created in Unreal Engine or ID Tech 4 takes around 2 months to create, and how big are they by average.. one town, one battlefield to imagine
that quality on a scale of say the whole Britain or Europe.. well it would require some kinda auto-generating software even in the future because no one has the time, effort or will to model a whole world
even if it's possible by hardware.

Last but not least would it be fun at all? I Seriously doubt it ...

[AndyJWest]

^ Yup, what virre89 says.

Consider the scenario. Low countries, late '44. You're playing as German infantry. You've just spent half an hour crawling along a virtual ditch to get to a position where you can halt the advancing Allied troops with M/G fire from a concealed position, and win the war for the Wermacht, when you hear a roar behind you - the last thing you see is a Typhoon firing rockets. You are dead. If you had advance warning, could you have done anything about it? No. You'd still be dead. Will you play the game again? Probably not...

[AKA_Tenn]

their saying we'll have virtual realities the likes of the matrix in less than 40 years, dunno bout the whole enslavement thing where AI has taken over the world, but maybe somthing more on the lines of the TV show caprica, that being the case, not just the sky, but anything we want our world to be would be the limit... and also that being the case, u could live 30 years of memories in just a few seconds if you could just download them into ur brain, so you could technically relive the whole war, and have it feel like the whole 7 years of it, but only a few seconds of real time has gone by, and then if u dies, lets hope u just get disconnected :P

just don't forget moore's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law)... thats all i can say :P

[dduff442]

Well all the signs at the moment are that we'll be getting photorealistic environments in a few years but that the interactivity and gameplay elements will still be stunted.

I have to say I'm hugely encouraged by the approach Oleg and crew are taking with SoW. I don't see why subsims, tank sims etc. shouldn't plug in to the basic game. In fact, this would be entirely logical. For instance it would be of great assistance in writing a Sub sim if pre-existing code allowed for sophisticated and variable behaviour by groups of attacking aircraft. If I were running 1c I'd be taking a hard look at the subsim genre... it's there for the taking. The Silent Hunter series is still on life support only thanks to modders. The retail games are not only poor, they're so badly designed that there are strict limits to what even dedicated modders can achieve. A subsim with well modelled sensors and decent AI would be a winner even if it only had about 15-20 AI platforms because that number would hit 50-100 within two years.

The problems with most online games are (as pointed out above) A) players are easily bored B) there's no way of enforcing any kind of organisation on them C) they don't fear for their virtual lives. There's not much to be done about A and B, but C could be fixed with clever design, e.g. if an all-time 'death count' limited the number of servers you could join. Players must have something to lose...

[virre89]

Well all the signs at the moment are that we'll be getting photorealistic environments in a few years but that the interactivity and gameplay elements will still be stunted.

I have to say I'm hugely encouraged by the approach Oleg and crew are taking with SoW. I don't see why subsims, tank sims etc. shouldn't plug in to the basic game. In fact, this would be entirely logical. For instance it would be of great assistance in writing a Sub sim if pre-existing code allowed for sophisticated and variable behaviour by groups of attacking aircraft. If I were running 1c I'd be taking a hard look at the subsim genre... it's there for the taking. The Silent Hunter series is still on life support only thanks to modders. The retail games are not only poor, they're so badly designed that there are strict limits to what even dedicated modders can achieve. A subsim with well modelled sensors and decent AI would be a winner even if it only had about 15-20 AI platforms because that number would hit 50-100 within two years.

The problems with most online games are (as pointed out above) A) players are easily bored B) there's no way of enforcing any kind of organisation on them C) they don't fear for their virtual lives. There's not much to be done about A and B, but C could be fixed with clever design, e.g. if an all-time 'death count' limited the number of servers you could join. Players must have something to lose...

Hmm here is my take on it.

The combination of several genres is just not something I see as logical at all. Keeping Tank, Inf, Sub Flight as separate games allows for maximum quality and realism of each specific thing.
It also allows for a reasonable audience and a reasonable workload for developers, unless you want it to turn into an MMO of World at WarCraft quality it's even impossible to create manually.

Besides we've already seen how the ground objects etc looks , even if they are stunning and absolutely amazing for a "flight sim"
they are ages behind if they'd be implemented in a FPS or where you'd normal expect a higher quality bar?

Why would it be the next big thing to pursue a combined sim? I guess the next big thing more evolves around better, damage mode,
ultra realistic flight models, excellent details etc, not a game that will recreate the entire ww2 in free roam mode..

[dduff442]

Well I tend to agree with you that from the player's perspective there's little point in merging, say, a sub sim with a flight sim.

From a developer's perspective it makes a great deal of sense, however, and could permit the delivery of games that have more depth and realism and/or deliver them more cheaply.

To illustrate, SoW will include ships and it's as easy (maybe easier) to implement these via a simple physical model as via a series of kludge factors (as in Silent Hunter). The ships will include ship-borne weapons and will have damage models. The ballistics of different shells in air and (presumably) in water will be modelled, as will their effects on armour of different sorts. If you take all these factors together, you're half way towards making a sub sim already. Submarines are just another kind of ship from the viewpoint of physical modelling. AI routines written for such a sim might be usefully ported back into SoW.

So... you're probably right that aiming for some over-arching universal simulator is pointless. The underlying engine should still permit the rapid development of other sims, however. Hopefully, 1C's licensing arrangements will enable everyone to win -- 1C, 3rd party developers and players -- and we can look forward to a new generation of sims of superior quality. I say go for it... the competition is mostly very weak.

[whatnot]

If we're talking about today's technologies then I have to agree that making a combined sim isn't something that we should expect some company to take on. But as we're talking about future fantasies here I definately think it's a possibility worth concidering.

How I see that being realized is that there would be a basic environment engine with decent graphics, physics and a lot of flexibility to mod and plug-in different features. Take outerra (.com) for example: pump that on steroids and develop it for 10 years with sim's as your target and we could have somethign pretty usable in our hands.

Then different developers would 'plug-in' their products developed for that engine and voila there is the starting point for something pretty cool.

An ofcourse on scales like that we're talking about procedural creation.. both with the landscape and buildings etc. It's crazy to even think about manual mapping except to create the create the foundation based on which the procedural generation builds on.

The scope of the battle would have to dynamically scale based on the number of players online to keep the world 'alive'.

I'm puzzled by the comment of an fps player player in a ditch oiling up his mg and getting nailed by typhoon after which he'd never come back.. That's exactly what happens in titles like BF2 hundred times in a round. You're wiped out by a bomb, artillery or whatever and don't have a clue what happened and it's one of the most popular games out there. It's pretty far from a sim ofcourse but proves the point that it doesn't make the gaming experience bad in any way. War wasn't fair and no one warned the guys who were shelled to bits and pieces.

[BaylorMax]

In ten years? Still waiting for SoW! :)

I just couldn't resist!

[zauii]

Not really interested in any type of combined simulation, i prefer a flight sim for what it is, AKA a good replication of the birds of war. If I want a sub sim i'll go play Silent Hunter, not BoB.

[Ernst]

Well all the signs at the moment are that we'll be getting photorealistic environments in a few years but that the interactivity and gameplay elements will still be stunted.

I have to say I'm hugely encouraged by the approach Oleg and crew are taking with SoW. I don't see why subsims, tank sims etc. shouldn't plug in to the basic game. In fact, this would be entirely logical. For instance it would be of great assistance in writing a Sub sim if pre-existing code allowed for sophisticated and variable behaviour by groups of attacking aircraft. If I were running 1c I'd be taking a hard look at the subsim genre... it's there for the taking. The Silent Hunter series is still on life support only thanks to modders. The retail games are not only poor, they're so badly designed that there are strict limits to what even dedicated modders can achieve. A subsim with well modelled sensors and decent AI would be a winner even if it only had about 15-20 AI platforms because that number would hit 50-100 within two years.

The problems with most online games are (as pointed out above) A) players are easily bored B) there's no way of enforcing any kind of organisation on them C) they don't fear for their virtual lives. There's not much to be done about A and B, but C could be fixed with clever design, e.g. if an all-time 'death count' limited the number of servers you could join. Players must have something to lose...

Servers restrictions could fullfill C) Just kick them if they die until the end of mission or for a large amount of time.

Now a "bizarre ideia" hehe... Players must pay by their lifes, like 2 or 3 dollars for each. You buy your lifes to join some servers by paypal. Nobody ll like to die cause nobody likes to lose money hehe:twisted: At the other hand server guarantee prizes for the best ranked players using the earned money. Prizes for not dying for long time and fullfill the missions. This prizes would be joys, trackirs, electronics or money in paypal account.

Just think, some really good players would be professionals in gaming. :-) This allow dedicated, organized and hardcore players to make some money at the expenses of pure gamers. I am bad!

However is certain that players ll effort to play better. Maybe the price of lifes would be based in a expected value of gaussian distribution of players ranks.

[whatnot]

Not really interested in any type of combined simulation, i prefer a flight sim for what it is, AKA a good replication of the birds of war. If I want a sub sim i'll go play Silent Hunter, not BoB.

I'm surprised about lack of interest on this.. probably because this is a flight sim forum. :)

I however love the idea of playing against humans compared to some lines of script regardless if they're on planes, tanks or just ditch grinding GI's. The feeling I get out of it is completely different!

Even the idea of a dynamic well coordinated MMO style front of combined arms with correct military hierarchies, tactics and strategies just blows me away!

[Necrobaron]

Well, as an aviation buff, I'm primarily interested in complete, well-rounded flight sims but I do tend to see the ultimate goal of simulations being the inclusions of all aspects of whatever event/incident is being modelled. For example, rather than having a WWII tank sim, or a WWII aviation sim, etc., I'd like to see a WWII sim...period. In other words, a sim that accurately models every aspect of WWII (or WWI, or the Korean Conflict, etc.) in high fidelity with no corners cut. Something of this magnitude might be a 100 years away, but I do see that as the ultimate goal of simming.
________
MICHIGAN MARIJUANA DISPENSARY (http://michigan.dispensaries.org/)

[Skoshi Tiger]

Servers restrictions could fullfill C) Now a "bizarre ideia" hehe... Players must pay by their lifes, like 2 or 3 dollars for each. You buy your lifes to join some servers by paypal. Nobody ll like to die cause nobody likes to lose money hehe:twisted: At the other hand server guarantee prizes for the best ranked players using the earned money. Prizes for not dying for long time and fullfill the missions. This prizes would be joys, trackirs, electronics or money in paypal account.

Just think, some really good players would be professionals in gaming. :-) This allow dedicated, organized and hardcore players to make some money at the expenses of pure gamers. I am bad!

However is certain that players ll effort to play better. Maybe the price of lifes would be based in a expected value of gaussian distribution of players ranks.

I actually like this idea (even though I'ld be too tight fisted to actually use it!) though I'ld suggest that you allowed people to join the game for free IF they only manned AA guns and vehicles.

This would get get rid of the vulcher element. After getting chaged 3 or 4 time for getting shot up on the runway I think you'ld be sufficiently angry to stay at your post for an extended time!

cheers!

[Qpassa]

Servers restrictions could fullfill C) Just kick them if they die until the end of mission or for a large amount of time.

Now a "bizarre ideia" hehe... Players must pay by their lifes, like 2 or 3 dollars for each. You buy your lifes to join some servers by paypal. Nobody ll like to die cause nobody likes to lose money hehe:twisted: At the other hand server guarantee prizes for the best ranked players using the earned money. Prizes for not dying for long time and fullfill the missions. This prizes would be joys, trackirs, electronics or money in paypal account.

Just think, some really good players would be professionals in gaming. :-) This allow dedicated, organized and hardcore players to make some money at the expenses of pure gamers. I am bad!

However is certain that players ll effort to play better. Maybe the price of lifes would be based in a expected value of gaussian distribution of players ranks.

I dont like the idea, I have payed for the game, Im not going to pay as a suscription

[Ernst]

Only in some servers where people would like to experience additional emotion. It ll be like a tournament server where people go to put all of your habilities and expect to anchieve prizes for sucess and right way of flight. You ll participate if you want.

If you fly well you ll save your money and earn some, if you fly bad you ll lost it. It could limit 20 dollars (or 10 lifes) per credit card in a month to preserve people to get vicious and spend much money.

If you pass this limit then you ll go to fly in free dogfighting server to maximize your flying until next month. Hehe...:grin:

[kristorf]

In 10 years time we will be eagerly awaiting the imminent release of SoW...................................

Seriously though, if we look at the advanves of the last 10 years and sort of game would be mind blowing in detail and gameplay.