formula-damage(guess)

[tsavo]

Unlucky me, the engineer only have machine gun perk, not heavy cannon.
But I will do some maths anyway.

Say,
1 low accuracy is good(75% hit ratio) only at half(50%) the range, given the range 60, so they are only useful at 30;
2 while laser with high accuracy are good at full range(100%), which is 80 for pulse laser, may be they are only good at 90%, but let’s just use 100% at first;
3 a logical guess about heavy gun with medium accuracy should be in the middle(75%), with average range of 70;

The actual formula-damage will be:
Accuracy() x Range() / Distance() x Hit Ratio(75%) x Damage per Second(100%)

a. Dealing with normal fighters,
laser will get:
Accuracy(High 100%) x Range(95) / Distance() x Hit Ratio(75%) x Damage per Second(100%)
Heavy gun will get:
Accuracy(Med 75%) x Range(80) / Distance() x Hit Ratio(75%) x Damage per Second(100%)

b. Dealing with laser-proof fighters,
laser will get:
Accuracy(High 100%) x Range(95) / Distance() x Hit Ratio(75%) x Damage per Second(50%)
Heavy gun will get:
Accuracy(Med 75%) x Range(80) / Distance() x Hit Ratio(75%) x Damage per Second(100%)

c. Dealing with moving targets,
Laser’s accuracy will not be affected, plus the beam will last 1/4 seconds
Cannon bullets will be dramatically affected if the shooting line is different from the fighter’s track.

Conclusion: laser is king, even if with laser-proof 50%, only get weak damage with 80% laser-proof:-P

now the real question is: if laser is so good, why the game still use cannon?
there must be something wrong.

[Nanaki]

Yeah, this was a huge problem in the Star Wolves series, and I imagine, one of the huge reasons (if not THE reason) why the developers added anti-laser systems in the first place.

Also, do not underestimate the 80% reduction, towards the end practically every enemy fighter is equipped with one, making even ships equipped with precursor cannons struggle.

[jerryfanfan]

Each enemy fighter will only ever equip one antilaser system, so laser is still fine against them. I think the enemies only have the 50% reduction, as that's the only one that gets dropped. But maybe they could be equipped with 80% reduction but only drop the 50% one?

While laser is king against enemies, you can just equip your own fighters with two or three antilaser systems for seriously laser equipped enemies like the Berserks. A fighter with at least 3 system slots equipped with 2 80% antilaser and 1 missile jammer is totally invincible in the level where Berserks are the only enemy.

[tsavo]

Each enemy fighter will only ever equip one antilaser system, so laser is still fine against them. I think the enemies only have the 50% reduction, as that's the only one that gets dropped. But maybe they could be equipped with 80% reduction but only drop the 50% one?

While laser is king against enemies, you can just equip your own fighters with two or three antilaser systems for seriously laser equipped enemies like the Berserks. A fighter with at least 3 system slots equipped with 2 80% antilaser and 1 missile jammer is totally invincible in the level where Berserks are the only enemy.

in the final mission, my mothership salvaged some 80% laser-proof, so, there are better equiped fighters.
how about mother ships, are there any laser-proof motherships in the npc fleet?:evil:

[Nanaki]

in the final mission, my mothership salvaged some 80% laser-proof, so, there are better equiped fighters.
how about mother ships, are there any laser-proof motherships in the npc fleet?:evil:

SAM might be, other than him, though, no.

About 80% Laser reduction, it highly depends on your difficulty. Easy (and even normal) difficulty you will not see many at all, but hard difficulty you actually fight a lot of enemies equipped with 80% laser reduction.

[Goblin Wizard]

now the real question is: if laser is so good, why the game still use cannon?
there must be something wrong.

There are two types of ships where miniguns type weapons are good.
First is mothership cuz fighters always comes directly toward him.
Second are Butcher type ships with a tail turret. Enemy fighters whose chases them always go straight so hit probability is high.
Fighters with miniguns are only good when firing big or slow targets like motherhips or Butchers.

[tsavo]

well, minigun is out of question, range is the problem for both fighters and ms.

the dps of heavy cannon is as good as laser, so there is a balance between the hit-ratio and laser-proof.

I restarted as a combat engineer this time, and noticed that when hit by kinetic warhead, the fighter a sort of out of balance, is that true?

[Goblin Wizard]

I don't use kinetic weapons so I've never noticed that but you are talking about main caliber or normal?

[tsavo]

mother ship turret

if we can add impact effect to kinetic weapon, it could bring a much different way of playing

[jerryfanfan]

There's something else about lasers I like. Let's say that in every 4 seconds there is only 1 second where the gun is lined up with the target, the machinegun will spend 1 second firing and then 3 out of those 4 seconds idle, and thus doing only 1/4 of the damage, while the laser would spend 1 second firing and the 3 seconds reloading, thus doing full damage.

[tsavo]

well, that is not true if we talk about mothership turrets

for fighters, some cannons shoot like pules laser, u got the same result

[Killer]

Hmm, and how about pulse lasers vs. particle cannons. I have found that for fighters, Ternie with particle guns (supported by a Prototype X) is killing enemies like crazy while my char with pulse lasers is having difficulties sometime. I have even seen Ternie to kill 3 fighters by one shot. Well they were 1st gen, but still, it was a nice look.
How would this be on a MS? So far I have used only kinetics and pulse lasers on my MS's during all my playthroughs. Shall I spend some money and get particle turrets?

[tsavo]

1 kill 3, amazing

Now, I am flying a decoy all the time, as a combat engineer
Ternia, the laser gunner, is running the mother ship, with laser proficiency,
while Greyhair is the scout and gunner

i did not buy any Mainframe upgrade, and will not buy any.
and I'm very close to fly a G4 fighter now, but the first G4 will be a decoy fighter as well.

Ternia with 3 G1 combat laser is also deadly enough, as long as my tiny Mastiff is not the target.

[Hal2003]

I made test in Betha Lathera 1, at normal with pulse lasers or particles ac. turrets , not problem with two Kali shields and Tungsten to stay ot one place and shot all coming MSF troops and get easy points.

With kinetic guns was my Mastiff riped by second wave of the fighters.

[Florio]

using large caliber canon like M-102 Rolf or Testubo is deadly, u can watch the health bar deacresing very fast

[Goblin Wizard]

but they have shorter range and awful accuracy. High ROF guns become good only when supported by "Gun Dispersion" and "Frequent Criticals" perks. Of course, max possible gunnery is recommended.

[Trucidation]

Maybe because it's I played normal, but laser reduction on enemies wasn't a big problem.

But if you watch carefully, as jerryfanfan noticed, pilots don't fly with their gun triggers depressed constantly. They shoot in bursts, and the lull between those bursts hurts high RoF/low dmg guns. Also, manually aiming for your pilots is a dramatic improvement.

Try it: enable pause when selected target is destroyed. Then select a pilot and use the camera to follow behind him. Aim targets for him. As soon as one is destroyed, click on a nearby target which is roughly travelling in the same direction - not necessarily the nearest target. This way it's possible to take out an entire wing of fighters in a continuous salvo. When it pauses at the final kill you'll see all the explosions paused which makes it look like you shot them all at once like Killer did.

Left to itself the AI tends to fly away and wheel around before selecting another target to fire at. That's why manual aiming is better, common sense will tell you it's easier to hit a target which is travelling away from you because you have time to tail it and line up your shot. The AI is probably simply picking the nearest target, and since the nearest target also tends to be one flying towards you, the AI has no time to shoot and has to wheel around to line up an attack run.