Friday 2010-02-12 VIDEO and Discussion Thread

[luthier]

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS SO WORK IN PROGRESS IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY

For today's update, we have a little TV spot about Battle of Britain from a TV show about video game peripherals that run on the Russia Today channel last week.

They were mostly interested in the TrackIR, so we gave them a little demo of our 6DOF implementation.

The TV crew caught us at just about the worst time imaginable. We were making big changes to our terrain engine. The crew came on very short notice. The day they told us they were coming, we started replacing terrain placeholders with final features. It was a tedious procedure that took several days.

We couldn't hold back development for Russia Today, and we couldn't reschedule their visit. So, on the day of the shooting, long story short, we only had half the game in working condition to show them. The other half... Well, see for yourself.

Nevertheless, we hope you will find this clip interesting. If anything, it'll give you a taste of what our development environment is really like, and all the iterations our games go through before they're good and ready.

Now, where's my asbestos suit?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xoz1Kb2wkPE

[Blackdog_kt]

Oh man, this will be good. Thanks a lot people ;)

[Tbag]

Thanks Ilya! Can I have a closeup of your dektop? :D

[Flyby]

thanks Luthier! I've taken to wearing a drool bib on Fridays. The work on SoW looks amazing. :)
Flyby out
PS I'm glad to hear the bit about (basically) BoP being cool and all, but the team is focusing on the PC because it's all about "processing power", and "the real action is on computers". Bodes good for the continuation of the the flight sim genre, imo.
PhysX FM and DM anyone? ;)

[Snuff_Pidgeon]

of course

[luthier]

Thanks Ilya! Can I have a closeup of your dektop? :D

That's not even my desk. They found the one desk in our office that could be shot from multiple angles, and had me swap out with its rightful owner, move my old clunker of a PC there, all my devices, etc.

If you mean my computer desktop, there's nothing fun there. I keep it extra clean.

[Tbag]

I meant the Stuka screenshot! :)

[zapatista]

thanks for posting a new video update !

good news the terrain placeholders are now being replaced with final features

no signs of final textures in that video yet, right ? or maybe in the 1e section of the vid where you are flying at medium altitude ? because shortly after that the scenery becomes very cartoonish !

sounds like we are a step closer to getting a beta version up and running !

[Foo'bar]

...real action is still on computers!

Amen.

[luthier]

I meant the Stuka screenshot! :)

Oh I just paused the game.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Nice update in SoW. Just being nitpicky here, the sound of that IL-2 were NOT stock 4.09m or I am playing a different game here ;) :D Thanks for the update, looks nice!

[rakinroll]

Thank you man, good video. ;) But i see some freez on game. Hopefully it is because of your computer.

[Baron]

Getting closer :)

[ECV56_Guevara]

Now, where's my asbestos suit?



You will need it......Flame him!!!!!!:mrgreen:

[JG52Uther]

I have Ilya's autograph if anyone wants to buy it,now he is a TV star!

[Avimimus]

The day they told us they were coming, we started replacing terrain placeholders with final features. It was a tedious procedure that took several days.


Now you've done it!
You used past tense.
Now everyone will think that we can see final features of the terrain on the 19th.

You'd better take off that suit and keep cool. It's going to be needed next week!

[CUJO_1970]

Actually, far from needing any "asbestos suit":cool:

The IL/2 community is drooling at updates like this! My core i7 GTX superclocked rig is wondering how it will stack up against SOW.

[proton45]

Is it Friday, already???

Thanks ;)

[Bearcat]

The BD track... :)

So that video must have been a mix of FB & SoW.. either way... I am looking forward to this sim so much.. and I know you guys wont make the boneheaded move of requiring an internet connection to fly with no offline component... :)

[Tbag]

...and I know you guys wont make the boneheaded move of requiring an internet connection to fly with no offline component... :)

Which is going to be dropped very soon in ROF as well :)

[Tree_UK]

Which bit of the Vid shows final terrain?

[luthier]

Which bit of the Vid shows final terrain?

Like I said, we were in the middle of some major changes. The video shows a snap-shot of half-transformed terrain with most of the features turned off for sanity.

The terrain shown there is not final in regards to water network, elevation, textures, or objects.

The final part of it is that it's generally somewhere below the planes.

[Ironman69]

Luthier, can you tell us how much different the feeling of flight of the latest build of SoW compares with 1946? As I recall, 1946 had the same beta flight model as SoW did at the time. What, if any, has changed? Also, will SoW feature the same joystick axis X, Y, Z curve input feature that 1946 had...which was customizable?

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Hey! You let him play - that's not fair! I want to play Storm of War too.

The RT guy don't know how lucky he iss :mrgreen:

Nice update.

Now I'll get some sleep. Wake me up on friday, will you? :-P

[dali]

Hi Ilya, your new offices look to clean :D

[Skoshi Tiger]

You get a reported from a leading computer game TV show to come in show case your up and comming title, and hes going Wow over using a Track-IR that we've been using for years!

It's time to admit it guys! We're geeks on the fringe of main stream computer gaming!!!!!

[Jaws2002]

Don't you like the look on people's face when you answer the door with the trackIR clip on? :mrgreen:

Good show guys and thx for the updates.:)

[HB252]

HI Iliya and teamwork guys!!

Nice and great work again!


This time, i got a question:

:):):):):)DATA OF RELEASE!? :):):)


Do you think how will be the announce or proclaim release???

It will be proclaim on updates friday? or an other internet page like WOP??

Are you sure that release data will be before anniversary´s BOB 50 YEARS'

Thx

[Rodolphe42]

...


Thanks for the Vid's


Luthier can you tell us which aircraft type, manned by a pilot in RAF flying suit, is shown on those screenies ? ;)


A Fiat BR.20 Cigogna, I guess ?


http://www.checksix-forums.com/gallerie/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0


...

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Nice! Looking forward to SoW more and more! Also looks like the community is settling down a little and not ripping everything apart so much, seems to have finally sunk in that this stuff really is work in progress. With that in mind, can you tell us what pc specs you are running SoW on right now and what FPS you get with them, we all know that some features will be added and lower fps and some features will be optimized and raise FPS, but I see so many people that are stuck thinking that all these pretty graphics in SoW is based on the il2 engine or something and that their overclocked i7 at 4ghz and 2 GTX295's won't run it, lol. We all know anything fps/spec wise posted now will not be anywhere near final, but p[erhaps will at least calm some fears.

[luthier]

Luthier, can you tell us how much different the feeling of flight of the latest build of SoW compares with 1946? As I recall, 1946 had the same beta flight model as SoW did at the time. What, if any, has changed? Also, will SoW feature the same joystick axis X, Y, Z curve input feature that 1946 had...which was customizable?

It's quite different. It took a lot of time for me to readjust and to actually learn to shoot things down again. I needed some convincing that the new feeling was indeed better. The most convincing argument was lots and lots of guncam footage, where time and again I saw the guys keep having the exact same kind of trouble lining up and hitting targets that I myself was having.

Lower speeds also feel different. It's so much fun to just barnstorm in a Tiger Moth, flying through hangars, or doing loops under the Tower Bridge at 45 mph.

The joystick input has a lot more than what we had with Il-2. You can adjust your settings of course.

Luthier can you tell us which aircraft type, manned by a pilot in RAF flying suit, is shown on those screenies ? ;)


A Fiat BR.20 Cigogna, I guess ?

It is indeed. We've got the British Irvin jacket guy sitting everywhere for now, but you can see some of our other pilot models in our previous updates. We'll have proper Italians manning Italian planes in the release of course.

[Qpassa]

thanks for the vid,but they did too publicity of Track ir , I have it ,just talk of it SOW:BOB! :< ;)

[Tbag]

Not related but what is that thing in front of the horizontal stabilizer?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KgIqQvYUs3I/SBR0cU_f8JI/AAAAAAAABJw/GA_k0S7u5ao/S660/TigerMoth.jpg

[luthier]

The pilot?

[Tbag]

No, the other thing that isn't visible in the sceenshots of your Tiger Moth :P

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

It's quite different. It took a lot of time for me to readjust and to actually learn to shoot things down again. I needed some convincing that the new feeling was indeed better. The most convincing argument was lots and lots of guncam footage, where time and again I saw the guys keep having the exact same kind of trouble lining up and hitting targets that I myself was having.

Thanks for the insight Luthier, and from my POV that is great to hear! :) I want something brand new, and a feeling that I am going through a learning process all over again.....I'm sure many others feel the same. If the new FM's present more of a challenge in both aiming and general flight, then it gets my vote. I find IL-2 unrealistically easy at times in terms of stability. Will be most interesting to see how torque in particular is modelled, as well as the new CEM. I have a feeling that (knowing you people) it will be top drawer.:)

I have high hopes that you have implemented a new FFB engine/system too as I have recently bought a G940, could you please confirm this or not? Thanks kindly, and great news if so.

Keep up the good work Chaps! :grin:

[AndyJWest]

If you mean the strakes along the top of the fuselage, Tbag, I think they were added to change the Tiger Moth's spin characteristics. I can't remember exactly what they did, but most RAF TMs had them

[Tbag]

Yep, that's the ones I mean! Thanks Andy!

[choctaw111]

I enjoyed that interview.
WIP or not, SoW is looking very good!

[Rodolphe42]

...

Not related but what is that thing in front of the horizontal stabilizer?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KgIqQvYUs3I/SBR0cU_f8JI/AAAAAAAABJw/GA_k0S7u5ao/S660/TigerMoth.jpg


With the addition of military equipment, strengthened wing spars, fitment of aileron mass balances, the Tiger Moth was reluctant to recover from spin due to the rearward CG position.

As Andy correctly mentionned, those 'Anti-Spin' aluminium Strakes, extending the leading edge of the tail plane, were part of the Mod 112 .


Attached a picture taken last week of the Tiger Moth DE730 from Malta Aviation Museum.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/MaltaAviationMuseum/IMG_7229.JPG


...

[luthier]

Five pages in, I realize that reactions to Friday Updates are like a box of chocolates.

[Tbag]

From this list I see that they have been introduced way after the Bob:

http://www.dhsupport.com/uploads/Tiger%20Moth%20Index%20of%20Modifications.pdf

Good to know :)

[Viking]

Five pages in, I realize that reactions to Friday Updates are like a box of chocolates.

I give you realy good box of chocolates Ilya!

Its very nice to see the sim progress and the developers getting a face.

Thank you!

Viking

[Rodolphe42]

...

From this list I see that they have been introduced way after the Bob:

http://www.dhsupport.com/uploads/Tiger%20Moth%20Index%20of%20Modifications.pdf

Good to know :)




Spot-on Tbag ! ;)


...

[AndyJWest]

From this list I see that they have been introduced way after the Bob:

http://www.dhsupport.com/uploads/Tiger%20Moth%20Index%20of%20Modifications.pdf

Good to know :)

Ah, well, I was half right. No anti-spin strakes on BoB Tiggies then. I'm really looking forward to flying this old bird.

[Pahvi]

I don´t understand what is so great with this update, i think it´s poor as Ilya said.

[Viking]

I don´t understand what is so great with this update, i think it´s poor as Ilya said.


Since you obviously are new to this discussion and the simulations of Il-2 and SoW you are excused for your “ignorance”. Here we weight every word from the developers on a gold scale. If it’s positive we prostrate ourselves on the ground and hide our faces in the dirt and utter words of admiration.
Stick around and you will grow to like it.

Regards

Khun Viking

[Sutts]

Thanks for the update Luthier, work in progress or not, it's looking great.:grin:

I'm really pleased you've started showing us some real game footage, it's increased confidence no end.

I realise the ground textures are still being worked on but one little point I'd like to confirm.....I thought I saw a few fields with modern day tractor "tram lines" - parallel lines in the crop designed to allow tractors to more easily apply fertiliser and sprays. I'm certain 1940s era fields would just have appeared from the air as a uniform crop since horses were still very much in use and the few early tractors were certainly not working the fields in the same way as they do today.

I realise you are probably quite aware of this. I just thought I'd mention it as it was the one thing in the Memphis Belle movie which looked completely wrong to me - I have spent a good deal of my life on farms though!

The 1940s British landscape looked quite different to today as the hedges were generally much higher, the fields smaller and less uniform in shape with many more lanes which have since been lost to the post war field enlargement scheme. Also, at the time of the Battle of Britain, wheat stooks and traditional pitched hay stacks (loose hay - no bales) would have been an obvious feature in the landscape. Self propelled combines and balers were only just appearing so neat lines of straw and stacks of bales would have been a rare sight in those days.

I'm sorry, you probably know all this but just in case. I do appreciate this is a flight sim and at the end of the day it really doesn't matter but if the textures are still in progress then it can't harm to get these little 1940s details right. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has read about BOB pilots belly landing in wheat fields during the harvest or crashing through a hay stack.

A couple of pictures of stooks and haystacks:

Thanks again and please don't take this as a criticism.

[Matze81]

.. and I know you guys wont make the boneheaded move of requiring an internet connection to fly with no offline component... :)
I hope you're right on this one m8!

[zakkandrachoff]

yes, in the cockpit of the stuka is very laggy, but back seat ant outside not.

nice
someone will gona update that program to youtube that they talk in the video?

[Necrobaron]

Looks good to me!
________
BRUNETTE BEAUTIFUL (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/412/beautiful/videos/1)

[Insuber]

Five pages in, I realize that reactions to Friday Updates are like a box of chocolates.

Ilya,

The absence of criticism imho isn't due to the content of the video, as the Il2-ish feeling is still there, but to the appreciation of the implicit message: all pieces are coming together = you are close to a beta version. We are then closer to the truth day, when we'll find out if our high expectations will be satisfied, which I heartily hope.

Regards,
Insuber

[SlipBall]

I remember that the one or two wrapped pieces in the big box of otherwise un-wrapped chocolate, were always the best tasting. Can't remember but may have had a cherry. And so the SOW un-wrapping continues, and I do not expect a lemon:grin:

[bhunter2112]

Lookin good - I hope and pray for a 2010 release date! I cannot wait to get at that FMB

[Gibbage]

Ilya. I dont know how, but you gained a Russian accent. I think your spending a bit too much time in Russia ;)

[BadAim]

LOL, that happens Gib. My brother (a Connecticut boy like me) spent a good ten years in Texas and came back with a southern drawl, and he wasn't even speaking a different language (well, not really). It clears up in a couple of months.

[kirq]

Ilya,

The absence of criticism imho isn't due to the content of the video, as the Il2-ish feeling is still there, but to the appreciation of the implicit message: all pieces are coming together = you are close to a beta version. We are then closer to the truth day, when we'll find out if our high expectations will be satisfied, which I heartily hope.

Regards,
Insuber

+1

[ECV56_Lancelot]

Ilya,

The absence of criticism imho isn't due to the content of the video, as the Il2-ish feeling is still there, but to the appreciation of the implicit message: all pieces are coming together = you are close to a beta version. We are then closer to the truth day, when we'll find out if our high expectations will be satisfied, which I heartily hope.

Regards,
Insuber

I think its more that in reality what you see on the video of BoB its very very little to make any criticism. For example, for the little bit of the terrain that you see, i could say it didn't impress me at all, i even didn't like it, but its so small what you see and with so little detail, that i cant make a decent impression of what its showed and make even a more decent critic.
The video would give the impression that everything its starting to come together, but that is all you can get.

If i would criticize something, its the update itself, that in practicity shows me nothing. I prefer an update like last friday, with a few screenshots, people jumpend right away giving suggestions and information to make the uniforms more realistics, that update i beleive was more constructive than this one.

All IMHO! :)

[Flyby]

Does this mean there will be no OpenGL rendering in the SoW series? I'm just asking.
Flyby out ( I know. I shuuda searched first)

[Blackdog_kt]

Well, i agree with you in a sense but i also disagree. No, i'm not crazy :lol:

What i mean is that every update so far had something to offer, this one was a "read between the lines affair".

I think it's mostly about the implications...

"Here we have the most well-known, English speaking(=with an international impact) TV station in Russia showing a short video of our upcoming title...something we wouldn't probably do if we weren't absolutely sure that we'll succeed."

This is the message of this update and while the actual content didn't satisfy me, the message did very much ;)

What i would like to see at some point is what is open to speculation between community members. We pretty much knew the graphics, FM and DM would be the best thing possible for the available PC technology, anyone who has flown IL2 and has a little faith in the developer team probably didn't need to be told that.

What don't we know and people speculate about?

Sounds: Doppler effect, "sound cone", etc

AI: How "smart" are they? Are they good wingmen and difficult opponents? Can they feel fear? Will they take stupid risks? Will they have a certain element of randomization in their routines to make them feel more human?

The dynamic campaign and the world around you: Are there random triggers? Will we be able to find "traffic" (=targets and trouble) outside the mission route? Will the game world feel alive? Promotions/Squadron and pilot management? Transfers?


The new multiplayer mode: Maybe a mix of coop and DF, a persistent online campaign where players decide what to bomb/defend and have their ability to fight and win influenced by that? If i bomb the airfield's fuel dumps you face a fuel shortage, if i strafe the trains/convoys that bring it in you can't replenish it and so on.

Ability to respawn and/or take over the planes of AI flights for such online campaigns? Not a big deal now, but maybe in the future. Nobody will fly 6 hours to Berlin, but if you could send a formation of AIs and timed it right, you could join the game and take over the planes a little before their bomb run, then "exit" them and go fly something else while they return to base?

The new mission builder: I'm sure there are others more qualified than me to comment on this, but what first comes to mind is giving an example of the available triggers and mission types.

Aircraft operation complexity: Will there be operating limits to follow/system modelling that are improved over what is available in IL2 as an extra difficulty/realism setting? Will the systems realistically breakdown if you exceed the normal parameters for too long?
If not, will it be supported by the engine so that a later add-on can enable it, or the comunity can help you make it?
How will this be controlled (keyboard,HOTAS, clickable cockpits, pop-up menus like the radio menu, all of the above methods so that we can choose what we like best?). There have been 2-3 threads with polls about that in the last week.

An example of how easily you can mod/customize SoW with the help of your officially supported tools: Making a new custom map? How hard is it to replace a cockpit texture with another one? What about skins?

Can we add interface options by ourselves in a way that it will not interfere with anti-cheat measures online? For example, making a switch clickable or tuning the DF antenna with the mousewheel/HOTAS slider, or assigning a keyboard/HOTAS command directly to a switch of a particular aircraft and not a generic function in the keybinding screen, so that it's aircraft specific and only works for that aircraft? For example, in a real FW190 pushing the stick forward unlocks the tailwheel, pulling it back locks the tailwheel but i don't want this to be a global setting, just something that happens only on the FW190.
What about separate control profiles (joystick response curves, button assignments)? For example, i set up the controls and save them as "BF109.ini", then click a checkbox "make settings default for..." and a drop-down menu opens, i select "BF109" and click ok. Then, i make a copy of the file, rename it to "SpitMKI.ini", edit 4-5 things that are different and make it default for the Spitfire. Things like that.

Finally, can we edit a text based file (.ini,.xml, things like that) to make things like that ourselves and save you the trouble? Help us help you make the simulator even better :grin:

This is all too much for now, i know, but i also know you guys have the vision, the talent and the skill to do a big part of it. Probably not immediately, but as time goes by and SoW improves i bet we'll see a lot of new, exciting and most of all, cleverly implemented things. Don't take this like i'm sticking a knife at your throat, but more like i'm throwing out various ideas in case you might like something or use it as a stepping stone for another, better idea of your own ;)

A 5-10 minute video showing turning on the engine , climbing to 5000ft, getting a kill and then receiving damage and landing in a field would answer a load of those questions in a very short amount of time. I wouldn't even care if the propellers were missing from the animation and the terrain and tracer effects were placeholders, but i would be very interested to have the system messages we see in some of your screenshots scrolling by at the same time, it would give a big indication of what's modelled within the airplane.

In any case, this is a mix of my personal "wishlist" with what i've seen other people eager to know. I'm sure that as the pieces fall into place we'll see more and more. Keep up the good work :cool:

[luthier]

Ilya. I dont know how, but you gained a Russian accent. I think your spending a bit too much time in Russia ;)

It blew my mind earlier. Out of the last four months I only spent three weeks at home. The rest was all Russian, Russian, Russian. About six weeks into the trip I finally got a chance to speak English, and I was startled that I had difficulty saying "green grass" and then half the other words. And if you think that was bad, earlier this week I told someone they were "velcome"

I could write a book about becoming Russified over the years. Things keep going the way they are, I will be writing in Vladimir Putin in 2012.

[Tbag]

And if you think that was bad, earlier this week I told someone they were "velcome"

Haha that reminds me of something, velcome to Germany:

http://espanol.video.yahoo.com/watch/2502304/7504493

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

LMAO, isn't it? Standard!! :grin: (For those who don't know, this is how a lot of British teenagers talk these days, that's what they are making fun of lol)

This is funny too......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsNLbK8_rBY

[Richie]

Hugh Laurie and Steven Fry



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp6yDxE2h6A

[rpgielow]

Hello all Il2's friends :)

Thats video its is a nice one, but it let me a bit afraid about the future :confused:

The video seems very low FPS... That was beacause you had to use you friend computers that its not a top rig or we have to wait more work to narrows down the performance issue ???:)

Is there any potential date that you can say, not promisse, when minimum and recommend specs will be available ???

It should be the year's second best news from you guys :) The first one will be the release or pre-order dates o course;)

Bye and thanx for all these years fun in IL2 that will never die like Rock and Roll (It will be the Counter-Strike of flight simulators)

[T_O_A_D]

Nice vid, Baited Breath waiting on it.

[Alien]

(It will be the Counter-Strike of flight simulators)
No, it will be more like Left for Dead 2 or Mass Effect 2 of simulators ;)

[Flanker35M]

S!

Better off with Mass Effect 2 which is a great game, not just like the others being as deep as their title name ;)

[MOG_Rumboy]

Is SOW going the same way as IL2 for in cockpit views?

Looks like it might - No pilot in the cockpit when you're flying in cockpit is what I mean.

Just always felt a bit weird having an empty seat under me and the stick and rudders moving of their own accord on the screen - would prefer a body!

No biggie I guess and certainly nothing to delay its' release over!!

Keep up the great work.

Rum

[Foo'bar]

No legs/arms in cockpit by MG. Possible for third party though.
Oleg and Ilya stated several times.

[Old_Canuck]

Thanks for the video, Ilya. These Friday updates are convincing me that retirement will have to wait until the new computer is built :)

[Richie]

I was wondering if there will be more squad choices or rather colour choices for the numbers on the aircraft. Right now there are no reds and yellows for all years if you are flying a 109. Blues come to mind too.

[choctaw111]

Luthier,

I know that so many people have been clamoring to know about system specs, which is not what I am asking.
What I would like to know are the system specs of the PC you were using to demonstrate BoB in the movie.

[AndyJWest]

Luthier,

I know that so many people have been clamoring to know about system specs, which is not what I am asking.
What I would like to know are the system specs of the PC you were using to demonstrate BoB in the movie.
Nice try, Choctaw! If the demo runs on X, then X is good enough for SoW:BoB... Except that we don't know how complete the demo was, and how much demand it put on the system. Knowing the machine specs will tell you little, but give the rumour brigade a whole new heap of 'evidence' to speculate on something we'll know soon enough anyway (I hope).

The whole thing reminds me of my childhood - me and my four brothers, sitting around the table, eating our sausages and mash: "What's for pudding, Mum?" - "Wait and see...". I think it tasted better that way.;)

[Richie]

I don't care what they say get the fastest everything. I just got a Lian Li P80 and that's what I'm going to do. Fill it with the fastest everything!