Friday 2010-02-05 Screenshots AND Discussion Thread

[Oleg Maddox]

Hi,

Just a few screenshots today.
Shots from development tools. WIP.

Working drawbridge and pilots

If you’ll find anything wrong with our screenshots, please let us know.
For example our colors are based on a blend of period B&W and more modern color photos. However we don’t have any color photos of the Tower Bridge from 1940. If you see anything wrong with the paints we used, we’d be glad to see any reference you might supply.

[PeterPanPan]

Hooray - ye of little faith!

Nice to see you got the traffic driving on the left too!

Thanks Oleg

PPanPan

[NSU]

wauu, the Pilot Model look good

[Oleg Maddox]

wauu, the Pilot Model look good

There will be many faces. Not just couple

[352ndBushpilot]

This is awesome! Keep it up. The attention to detail is simply WoW

[PeterPanPan]

Tower Bridge has recently been undergoing major restoration. They have been carrying out paint analysis to see what colours the bridge used to be. I have seen a picture showing layers of paint going back to the 1960s, but no earlier. I am making further enquiries to see what I can find about the 1940s.

PPanPan

[nearmiss]

Look very much like people. I'd say you hit the mark. I'm kinda curious what you plan to do with them, since I spend all my time inside the cockpit.

I don't like moving knees and hands in cockpit, because with no peripheral vision those items usually block the instruments,etc.

[Foo'bar]

There will be many faces. Not just couple

Will they also have different face geometry or just different skins?

[Oleg Maddox]

Will the also have different face geometry or just different skins?

Different geometry.

[Foo'bar]

Different geometry.

Different and separate head models then I guess. Very good!

[NSU]

Different geometry.

this will be good for the german ace
Karl Friederich Müller "Nasenmüller" :-)

[Matze81]

Beautiful details on the pilot models! Especially the gear!

Although I don't think the British had german harnesses! (it says "DREHEN, DANN DRÜCKEN" on the harness lock :grin:)

But seriously, really nice work!

[Oleg Maddox]

Beautiful details on the pilot models! Especially the gear!

Although I don't think the British had german harnesses! (it says "DREHEN, DANN DRÜCKEN" on the harness lock :grin:)

But seriously, really nice work!

There will be other signs when we will find in good resolution. At the moment this one is place holder.

[Oleg Maddox]

Different and separate head models then I guess. Very good!

Even more details are diferent... and really we can mix them.
This is done for future developments of the sim series.

Ok... going home to relax a bit. Tomorrow will have some hard day.

[AndyJWest]

Looking good, as always.

I assume the collision modeling for Tower Bridge will be sufficiently accurate to do the obvious? I'll confess to having flown through it in MSFS a few times, and with a model that good looking it would be a shame not to try it in a Spitfire...

[PeterPanPan]

Looking good, as always.

I assume the collision modeling for Tower Bridge will be sufficiently accurate to do the obvious? I'll confess to having flown through it in MSFS a few times, and with a model that good looking it would be a shame not to try it in a Spitfire...

... and should a Lanc ever become available!!

[zapatista]

Hi Oleg,

thanks for posting another update, it all looks very good indeed !

i can see fire trucks and red cross truck on the bridge, but what is the 3e long grey truck at the rear of the traffic line ??

and will we see trucks like that moving at the airfields as an AI routine that is activated when we fly near a particular airfield for ex ? (ie using triggers to activate visual eye candy with moving AI objects when we are in visual range for it, but not stealing cpu/gpu cycles when we are not flying low enough to see it, or actually at the airfield itself))

[philip.ed]

Oleg, despite what I gave you, these pilot models are still off!!! You are using the wrong type of microphone here, and no pilot ever wore an oxygen mask with their SD hat.

Please, if you want to make SoW perfect in every way, I can give you perfect info on how all the pilots gear should look like. It really isn't that hard to model :grin:

Cheers, and I hope you read this as this is such an easy thing that can be made better ;)

[first-things-first]

Hi Oleg

Hopefully this will help - shows a lot of Thames bridges, including Tower bridge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LGavykBbxM

Colour of Tower bridge is not great (from around 3:00 onwards) and from what I saw - no close ups.

But, should help with the general "look" of London and Thames barges, riverside, etc.

I thought Tower bridge was a dark green where painted during the war?

Cheers

Andrew

[rakinroll]

Hi Oleg, thank you very much. But i am getting much more worry about having a good pc for SoW:BoB. Seems that ww3 will start in my home after this simulation release. Many of wife hates you i think. :grin:

[Dano]

What, no movie? :D

[lbuchele]

It´s amazing to see pilot models so good that a modern First Person Shooter could use them easily and those models are for a combat flight sim!
Oleg probably have something new use in his head for this models.
Something NEW is probably coming in this genre guys maybe not just better graphics or AI, but a new ,more deeper way to interact with game?
The wait is becoming harder...

[bhunter2112]

looks great. I want the FMB!!!! Release date? This year?

[No145_Hatter]

The "England" shoulder flash is wrong on the RAF Sergeant. This distinction was only made for dominions/commonwealth countries, not the home countries.

[Viking]

Even more details are diferent... and really we can mix them.
This is done for future developments of the sim series.

Ok... going home to relax a bit. Tomorrow will have some hard day.

Tomorrow is saturday!? And....? We where all hoping that you could enjoy some vacation now Oleg?

And also a very, very, special thanks to "first-things-first" for that find of the You Tube movie.
Amazing!

Viking

[ChrisDNT]

Nice modelling of the pilot, but his face does not look ethnically British.

[Viking]

Nice modelling of the pilot, but his face does not look ethnically British.

NAZI!!

Seriusly there was two Americans and several other nationals, Poles, S Africans, N Zeelands etc.etc that toke part in BoB so wait and see.

Regards

Viking

[AdMan]

If you’ll find anything wrong with our screenshots, please let us know.

I read this as sacrasm

[akdavis]

Nice modelling of the pilot, but his face does not look ethnically British.

British is not an ethnicity.

[Foo'bar]

WoW pilots look beautyfull, can we control the pilots outside the planes???

This is SoW, not WoW ;)

[GBrutus]

Nice modelling of the pilot, but his face does not look ethnically British.

They've yet to add the handlebar mustache. Perhaps he'll look more British then...

[Modding_Monkey]

Oleg.
I must say Wonderful job!

I do wonder. How will the Bridge work? Will it only be open\close or will it notice a ship coming close... traffic stops...open... ship passes... close... traffic starts?

[philip.ed]

I read this as sacrasm

Really? I read it as saying "if you’ll find anything wrong with our screenshots, please let us know." Clearly though, there may have been some sarcasm involved ;)

[Asheshouse]

There should not be any railings between the pavement and the road. These have only been added recently. The pavements look too wide to me. This photo is from the period 1948-66

http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/GSN/RoyalSovereign07.jpg

From memory, the road edge should line up with the inside of the archway. There is no pavement inside the arch, just around the outside.

But these are minor points. The overall appearance is great :)

[Modding_Monkey]

O and did anyone notice the German truck in the picture? Look likes is carrying AAA and something covered with Canvas.
Guess they did get to London.

[philip.ed]

There should not be any railings between the pavement and the road. These have only been added recently. The pavements look too wide to me. This photo is from the period 1948-66

http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/GSN/RoyalSovereign07.jpg

From memory, the road edge should line up with the inside of the archway. There is no pavement inside the arch, just around the outside.

But these are minor points. The overall appearance is great :)


The man's right. Also, I think I read somewhere that the bridge was really dirty before it was cleaned post-war....can't remember where I heard that though.?

[Insuber]

At a first glance the submerged pillars of the tower bridge look false, as water depth doesn't affect their visibility. In other words they should fade out as depth increases, instead they look homogeneously visible.

Bye,
Ins

[Richie]

Too much work put into it in other words but for me it ain't a problem

[Letum]

The tower should be more dirty.
The London smog of the early 1900s took it's toll on the bridge before it was cleaned shortly after the war.
The soot covered stone work made the white paint at the top stand out much more than it does today.

The current texture doesn't show the high tide line either.
Below the tide line the bridge was much cleaner because it was not exposed to the smog as much.

Finlay, the round towers at the corners stick out a little too much.

The railings are, indeed modern and should not be there.
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6616/towernv.jpg
For Comparison:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=1910&d=1265384353

[Zorin]

All taken between 1939 and 1946. So it needs to be a lot darker/dirtier. And the road needs to be changed as well as the insignia on the main strut needs to be removed.

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/31c14481eac9a134_large

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/3b0d138a35fd0d73_large

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/a0f726ce88a6a313_large

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/0686b6eb48f8be7c_large

[Zorin]

Getty Images is a good source as well.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/3434001.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FDD0B65FEC157E5753 DA95D0922AF54EAFF6228C4909D511FCE30A760B0D811297

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/3429432.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=45B0EB3381F7834DE366B46BB66014F4AF8A20BD9E88DC11 11D40A26B3E28636

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/3068845.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=45B0EB3381F7834DF1FBAAF7780E5E238D0B60944BA20196 CA52222F25EC092C

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/3360500.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=45B0EB3381F7834D70E253D682D93759F74AA19F57BD1AF3 207CAAE8C4C94190

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/3276137.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=45B0EB3381F7834D6AD3D77F364784D5B962929A7A65DE44 5223CE6E4BAF89B1

[Chivas]

Very nice Oleg...I know I will instantly recognize Tower Bridge...Its not necessary to fine tune it any further...The main thing now is how realistically it blends into its surroundings. Combat sims in the past just stuck 3D landmarks onto a blurry city texture and I know you have much bigger plans than this.

[zakkandrachoff]

already see this. can't buy me whit this. bad post.


http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g260/restranger/1024TowerBridge.jpg

[jocko417]

Nice job, as stated above PLEASE let us help you with photos of period flying gear used by the RAF.

Agree that no British RAF pilot would have worn 'ENGLAND' shoulder flashes, country titles were worn by those serving with the RAF/Commonwealth outside of their home country. So, an RCAF officer would wear CANADA titles in the UK but not in Canada. Also, all non-British below officer rank wore 'shoulder eagles' not country titles.

http://www.stby.com/airdigger/images/R063.jpg

Eagle's head would always point to the wearer's rear.

Another thing, you've copied the insignia from a modern RAF uniform. The crowns on the cap badge and wings should be a dome shape, as they were during King George VI's reign, not the heart shape adopted after the coronation of Elizabeth II. WWII-era crowns were like this:

http://www.stby.com/airdigger/images/R003.jpg

http://www.stby.com/airdigger/images/Info9.JPG

Note the brim of the cap is the same blue-grey material, NOT black leather.

There should not be pockets on the sheepskin Irvin flying jacket, and no metal snaps on the sheepskin trousers.

BTW, don't recognize this type of flying suit:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=1912&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1265384374

I can give you pics of the type of suits worn during the BoB.

The life jackets pre-war were greenish, guys would later paint over them with yellow so they would be more visible in the Channel.

Original Green:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/jocko417/1932PatternMaeWest2Sefton.jpg

Here is the type of microphone that should be on the Oxygen mask, the one you have didn't appear until the end of the Battle, most guys would have these:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/jocko417/Type19MicSefton.jpg


Keep up the great work, and please, let us help! :)

[ChrisDNT]

"British is not an ethnicity."

So, a pilot looking like a typical inhabitant of Great Britain.

[SlipBall]

Very nice up-date! love the detail...in that Life photo I notice that the horse drawn wagons are on the wrong side of the road:-P:grin:...all kidding aside, thanks for the up-date Oleg

[Skoshi Tiger]

Looking good, as always.

I assume the collision modeling for Tower Bridge will be sufficiently accurate to do the obvious? I'll confess to having flown through it in MSFS a few times, and with a model that good looking it would be a shame not to try it in a Spitfire...

How about a Tiger Moth through both traffic arches?????

[dAMOCLES]

Very nice. Just some small corrections, if you feel it's important to change.

The belt buckle on the RAF tunic is wrong it should be more like lower pictures.

I assume your version is based on the Osprey men at arms picture on page 4. It should be noted that this is not the tunic belt but a webbing belt (the same as on the front cover, but without pistol holster etc.) used in this instance to attach the holder for a bayonet. Also note eagles on shoulders.

The peaked cap is also wrong in this instance. Peaked caps were very rarely worn, if ever, except by commissioned officers (pilot Officer and above) except when on special parades or if attached to the camp guard, side caps were the normal head dress. The peaked cap you have shown is for junior ranks (below commissioned Officer, so rarely worn) as it has a black polished leather peak but you have shown it with an Officers cap badge (the crown on the badge is also wrong, as pointed out in a different post). Although the Officers hat is slightly different in shape, to make it look more correct simply change the colour of the peak to same as the top and make sure it is not attached to anyone below the rank of Pilot Officer.

Junior ranks peaked cap (note badge)

http://www.ima-usa.com/images/BR1024.jpg

Commissioned Officers peaked cap (note badge)

http://www.blitzandpeaces.co.uk/Museum/WW2%20Militaria/WW2%20RAF%20PHOTOS/thumbs/WW2%20BRITISH%20RAF%20OFFICERS%20PEAKED%20HAT%20WI TH%20CLOTH%20BADGE%20FRONT%20VIEW.jpg



The face mask would not be worn except with helmet, there would be no way to attach it or listen to the radio (this isn't Memphis Belle). The colour of the helmet should also be the same as the Irvin jacket or slightly darker but definitely brown rather than black.

This is a good example for colour

http://www.blitzandpeaces.co.uk/Museum/WW2%20Militaria/WW2%20RAF%20PHOTOS/slides/RAF%20C%20TYPE%20FLYING%20HELMET%20AND%20GOGGLES.J PG

Although they often look darker if new, or very old.

http://www.museumoftechnology.org.uk/nimages/A0849_ex.jpg

WWII FLYING HELMET TYPE "B" MASK TYPE "D" and RCAF GOGGLES, 1940

N.B Oxygen tube connector

Helmet Mask and Goggles used during the Battle of Britain by RAF crews. The helmet was made by I.Compton & Sons & Webb Ltd .

Mk3 RCAF Goggles. 1935 Royal Canadian Air Force Type
Introduced around 1935 Mk3 Goggles used curved celluloid lenses fitted into narrow blackened metal frames with velveteen cushions and large leather surrounds intended to protect the wearer from the elements (most RAF fighter aircraft in service in the mid-1930's were still in open cockpits). these were superseded by the Mk4 version as the the Mk3's strap fouled on the earpieces of the type 'B' helmet. the Mk4 is far more likely to have been used during the Battle of Britain.

http://www.historicflyingclothing.com/archive.php



http://images.imagestate.com/Watermark/1199150.jpg


Gloves worn, as far as I am aware, would either have been, Gauntlets, generally worn with flying overalls or tunic.

http://www.worthpoint.com/pmimages/images1/1/1107/20/1_534eb880bdf3b2a37cfb9261619e7016.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3135/2965422752_3c80b75ce1.jpg

or cream coloured flying gloves used in conjunction with the leather Irvin jacket. ( however normally somewhat dirty)


http://aircraft-cockpits.com/ww2uk/22C-Flying-Clothing/22C-992-Flying-Gloves-with-Silk-Inners.jpg

The gloves you show are not flying gloves but COMMISSIONED OFFICERS gloves to be worn on parade or during cold weather normally in conjunction with a great coat or blue tunic, but not for flying. Junior ranks would probably have worn black leather or blue/grey wool gloves.

The side cap. RAF pilots were not common Russian peasant soldiers but image concious/stylish Fighter Pilots, caps were worn at an angle, the general rule being as far as gravity and the Station warrant officer (GOD)would allow. The front should be no higher than the distance of the man's thumb tip to the first knuckle joint above the airman's eyebrow. The button holes for the two front brass buttons should not be edged with yellow/gold thread. It should also have a cap badge as in this picture.

Junior ranks

http://www.blitzandpeaces.co.uk/Museum/WW2%20Militaria/WW2%20RAF%20PHOTOS/slides/WW2%20BRITISH%20RAF%20OTHER%20RANKS%20SIDE%20CAP%2 02.jpg

Commissioned Officers

http://www.alliedflightgear.com/108_0860.JPG-for-web-normal.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9jGIJwx7ks8/SB5qSfRxznI/AAAAAAAAE54/zf8nemu2pCE/s320/RAF_man.jpg

The Sargent pilots uniform: It looks as if you have also given him the rank of a Pilot Officer , there should be no blue and black stripe around the cuff of the sleeve. The Sargent's stripes should also be larger, and the shoulder flash smaller. (note also belt buckle).

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3651/3482286367_763cf904c8.jpg


http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/565/rafranks.gif

Lastly :-) The sheepskin trousers would not have been worn at this stage of the war as Irvin jacket were still a private purchase rather than standard issue (mostly by officers who had the money, but not exclusively) They may have been worn by Aircrew doing duties that exposed them to extreme temperatures but were not used in any quantity until later in the war when they were widely issued to Bomber crews flying at night, at altitude over occupied Europe.

http://www.delaunecc.org/images08/rneale.jpg

Just realized the aircrew man in flying overalls is supposed to be RAF, what's with the handbag ? I can already hear the shouting and curses as Aircrew try to clamber through the tight confines of an aircraft with that bag catching on every possible object. If it supposed to be a charts/map case then a canvas brief case would have been more usual. I thought originally he was Luftwaffe, see picture of flying overalls (Sidcot, fur collar is detachable )for better representation. Some pilots however wore flying dungarees, more so in hot weather, Air Vice Marshal Keith Park was famous for his white flying dungarees.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/01/images/11382771056158251525_1.jpg

N.B Above pic is NOT Sir Keith Park ;-)

Links:

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.blitzandpeaces.co.uk/Museum/WW2%2520Militaria/WW2%2520RAF%2520PHOTOS/thumbs/BRITISH%2520RAF%2520WARRANT%2520OFFICERS%2520PEAKE D%2520HAT%2520WITH%2520METAL%2520BADGE%2520FRONT.j pg&imgrefurl=http://www.blitzandpeaces.co.uk/Museum/WW2%2520Militaria/WW2%2520RAF%2520PHOTOS/main.asp&usg=__lJNmPH2cgy1A6UA5uEETNHJrRXA=&h=180&w=180&sz=9&hl=en&start=107&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=NbbHtztj5_gvmM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3Draf%2Bhats%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den%26cl ient%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN%26start%3D105%26um%3D1

[Uriah]

ooh ooh, could we have a avatar chat room where we could all geather with our own pilot avatars and shoot the bull in the bar or mess?

[AndyJWest]

ooh ooh, could we have a avatar chat room where we could all geather with our own pilot avatars and shoot the bull in the bar or mess?
Well, to be authentic, if we were RAF, we'd have to exclude sergeant pilots from the mess, and spend most of our time 'debagging' each other and making footprints on the ceiling.

We would also run up enormous mess bills: "Never, in the field of human conflict, has so much been owed by so many to so few";)

Actually, bragging - 'shooting a line' was frowned upon, and you had to use understatement to explain what happened:

"So there I was, going flat out in the old Hurri, diving down on a brace of Heinkels, when one of the rotten Gerry gunners put a hole in my ruddy fuel tank. Most disappointing. I gave him a squirt with the 303s as I went past, but I think I just knocked a bit of paint off. Anyway, the old girl was making unpleasant noises, and it started to get a bit warm, what with the flames licking around the rudder pedals, so I decided it was time to make a swift exit. Next think I knew, I was hanging from the brolly, watching the Hurri go down. She landed in some poor farmer's field, and left a bit of a hole. I came down with a bump, but got away with nothing but a bruised rear. Some local turned up on a horse and cart, and gave me a lift back to base. Anyway, enough of my troubles, who's round is it?"

[Chopa]

This may be nit-picking but..... The Irvin jackets pockets are vertical on the sides, not diagonal on the front as in the illustration.HERE (http://www.oldnautibits.com/stock_php/aviation_clothing_b.php)
The officers' cap crown is too small. The RAF sidecap has a brass RAF badge on the left front.HERE (http://www.alliedflightgear.com/RAF%20caps.html)
The Sergeant is wearing a Service Dress skirted jacket usually worn by officers, W.O.'s or office staff. Sergeant pilots, as well as many officer pilots generally preferred batttledress blouses I believe. HERE (http://scottish-tartan-kilts.com/shopexd.asp?id=1621)
Shoulder flashes were worn by aircrew from Canada, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Belgium, Poland, Netherlands, France, Czechoslovakia etc, etc. but NOT England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland!

[Afdn]

Please Mr. Oleg
could put the cap pilots with more style, more veterans
thanks http://www.escuadrillasazules.es/components/com_agora//img/smilies/afdn_040.gif


http://i47.tinypic.com/2l8kcx.jpg

[Romanator21]

"So there I was, going flat out in the old Hurri, diving down on a brace of Heinkels, when one of the rotten Gerry gunners put a hole in my ruddy fuel tank. Most disappointing. I gave him a squirt with the 303s as I went past, but I think I just knocked a bit of paint off. Anyway, the old girl was making unpleasant noises, and it started to get a bit warm, what with the flames licking around the rudder pedals, so I decided it was time to make a swift exit. Next think I knew, I was hanging from the brolly, watching the Hurri go down. She landed in some poor farmer's field, and left a bit of a hole. I came down with a bump, but got away with nothing but a bruised rear. Some local turned up on a horse and cart, and gave me a lift back to base. Anyway, enough of my troubles, who's round is it?"

:grin::grin::grin: That made me laugh.

Nice job with the hat Afdn.

[philip.ed]

Nice job, as stated above PLEASE let us help you with photos of period flying gear used by the RAF.

Agree that no British RAF pilot would have worn 'ENGLAND' shoulder flashes, country titles were worn by those serving with the RAF/Commonwealth outside of their home country. So, an RCAF officer would wear CANADA titles in the UK but not in Canada. Also, all non-British below officer rank wore 'shoulder eagles' not country titles.

http://www.stby.com/airdigger/images/R063.jpg

Eagle's head would always point to the wearer's rear.

Another thing, you've copied the insignia from a modern RAF uniform. The crowns on the cap badge and wings should be a dome shape, as they were during King George VI's reign, not the heart shape adopted after the coronation of Elizabeth II. WWII-era crowns were like this:

http://www.stby.com/airdigger/images/R003.jpg

http://www.stby.com/airdigger/images/Info9.JPG

Note the brim of the cap is the same blue-grey material, NOT black leather.

There should not be pockets on the sheepskin Irvin flying jacket, and no metal snaps on the sheepskin trousers.

BTW, don't recognize this type of flying suit:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=1912&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1265384374

I can give you pics of the type of suits worn during the BoB.

The life jackets pre-war were greenish, guys would later paint over them with yellow so they would be more visible in the Channel.

Original Green:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/jocko417/1932PatternMaeWest2Sefton.jpg

Here is the type of microphone that should be on the Oxygen mask, the one you have didn't appear until the end of the Battle, most guys would have these:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/jocko417/Type19MicSefton.jpg


Keep up the great work, and please, let us help! :)


+1 (Although showing repro items may not be the best option ;) ) However, I have the 32 pattern vest here and it is not hard to model. Colour isn't too much of an issue as the range varied, but make sure (Oleg) you put the stencils in. Note: the sefton vest shown has the FRONT stamping slightly off; there weren't visible flicks on the letter R on the original stamping. Again I can show clear information on these matters *which I sent you Oleg*

Looking at the pics again, the irvin does not have any pockets, and the microphone shown is the wrong type, and does not have the oxygen tube coming out of the bottom: the tube came out of the left side (when worn) of the mask, to which the oxygen hose attached.

[brando]

As stated earlier, I think it's very important to remember the general griminess of the buildings in wartime Britain, London especially. There were fourteen mainline terminus stations - Blackfriars, Cannon Street, Charing Cross, Euston, Fenchurch Street, King's Cross, Liverpool Street, London Bridge, Moorgate, Marylebone, Paddington, St. Pancras, Victoria and Waterloo. All of them were served by coal-burning steam locomotives hauling trainloads of produce into the capital city, every hour of every day! In addition to the passenger stations mentioned above there were also freight termini like Somers Town, situated adjacent to Kings Cross, where all the potato traffic of the country arrived. London was the major distribution node for the South of England for farm produce and much else besides.

I'm sorry to be getting off the point here :) What I'm trying to stress is that London ran on coal. It burned in every domestic fireplace, fired all the power stations, ran the railways and shipping fleet and was turned into gas at the coking plants. It was everywhere - and its effluent stained every building in the whole city! It was not until the mid-sixties when steam power was phased out, and the Clean Air Act was made law, that work started on cleaning the civic buildings of London. This overall griminess is essential to show the true condition of 30's London.

brando

[kendo65]

Blown away by the knowledge and enthusiasm of some of the people on this forum.

What a great resource for Oleg to tap into and benefit from.

Here's hoping all these 'details' and advice help to make SOW as great as we're hoping for when it's released.

By the way Oleg, is that release still going to be in time for the 70th anniversary of the battle? ;)

[Chaos]

Blown away by the knowledge and enthusiasm of some of the people on this forum.

Yes, really nice except... this is a flightsimulator, not a fashion show or a museum showpiece. Although i appreciate the attention to detail I hope this doesn't detract from other, imo more pressing matters, like AI, flightmodelling and systems modelling. Too much focus is on the graphics' side of things if you ask me. We have yet to see anything from the simulation part of this game...

[Zorin]

Yes, really nice except... this is a flightsimulator, not a fashion show or a museum showpiece. Although i appreciate the attention to detail I hope this doesn't detract from other, imo more pressing matters, like AI, flightmodelling and systems modelling. Too much focus is on the graphics' side of things if you ask me. We have yet to see anything from the simulation part of this game...

For the 1000000 time, the graphic designers on the team are NOT building th code and neither have the coding guys chained to their monitors to admire what they have done instead of creating the best AI and whatever else code related. Please, get that in your head!

[ATAG_Dutch]

I know nothing about what it takes to engineer a game like BoB, but I've just watched the clip of the pilot exiting a Spitfire, and the thing that impresses me most is the movement of the pilot's shadow.
You can even see it on the seat back and parachute pack as he's getting up and out, then the large shadow on the wing / fuselage is simply perfect.
I kept pausing it in slo-mo over and over.
Just awesome realism.

[proton45]

This may be nit-picking but.....
Shoulder flashes were worn by aircrew from Canada, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Belgium, Poland, Netherlands, France, Czechoslovakia etc, etc. but NOT England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland!

The above could explain the below....

Nice modelling of the pilot, but his face does not look ethnically British.

LOL!!!! ;)

[Baron]

For the 1000000 time, the graphic designers on the team are NOT building th code and neither have the coding guys chained to their monitors to admire what they have done instead of creating the best AI and whatever else code related. Please, get that in your head!


Exept, the game wont be released before the nitpicking is done (U do know who Oleg is, right?), and that could take eons by the looks of things right now.

Think about it.

[proton45]

Exept, the game wont be released before the nitpicking is done (U do know who Oleg is, right?), and that could take eons by the looks of things right now.

Think about it.


I don't think your right about this... The original release of Il2 Sturmovik, and all of the subsequent "add-ons", all had patches/fixes soon after their release (and after)...I have also read posts from Oleg where he apologized for not including features and aeroplanes from "up-dates" because their was "no time"...

I'm just not sure the data supports your statement...

[nearmiss]

Whenever you post something like the screenshots for this thread it is like saying, "What do you think"?

Guaranteed...there will be plenty of people that will tell you what they think.

[choctaw111]

Thank you again for showing us another update.
This feels just like the good ol' days.

[Chaos]

For the 1000000 time, the graphic designers on the team are NOT building th code and neither have the coding guys chained to their monitors to admire what they have done instead of creating the best AI and whatever else code related.

No need to state the obvious. While you're debating whether that shoulder patch is the right color or there should really be 8807 rivets instead of 8806, I sit and wonder why they didn't spend more time on aircraft performance because my Spit climbs at 500fpm/sealevel at maximum power.

I'm exagerating of course... but you guys are getting stuck in the details. You're losing sight of the big picture. You can't see the forest for the trees.

I'm sure Oleg and team are doing their best. They're one of the few that still believe in this genre. I support them 100% and I'll be one of the first to buy their sim. I just hope they're not getting bogged down in details that I, personally, believe are not relevant. Not for a flight simulation game anyways...

[Baron]

I don't think your right about this... The original release of Il2 Sturmovik, and all of the subsequent "add-ons", all had patches/fixes soon after their release (and after)...I have also read posts from Oleg where he apologized for not including features and aeroplanes from "up-dates" because their was "no time"...

I'm just not sure the data supports your statement...


I think they are setting the bar way higher than they did with IL2.


Hopefully he knows when enough is enough and im sure he does.

[OSSI]

hehe yes the left looks like a Russian soldier after a fight :grin:


Please Mr. Oleg
could put the cap pilots with more style, more veterans
thanks http://www.escuadrillasazules.es/components/com_agora//img/smilies/afdn_040.gif


http://i47.tinypic.com/2l8kcx.jpg

[Foo'bar]

No need to state the obvious. While you're debating whether that shoulder patch is the right color or there should really be 8807 rivets instead of 8806, I sit and wonder why they didn't spend more time on aircraft performance because my Spit climbs at 500fpm/sealevel at maximum power.

I'm exagerating of course... but you guys are getting stuck in the details. You're losing sight of the big picture. You can't see the forest for the trees.

I'm sure Oleg and team are doing their best. They're one of the few that still believe in this genre. I support them 100% and I'll be one of the first to buy their sim. I just hope they're not getting bogged down in details that I, personally, believe are not relevant. Not for a flight simulation game anyways...

All Zorin wanted to say imho is that the work made (and stillbe done) by programmers isn't something to be shown here in forums. While they're working for BoB Oleg only can show us things made by the other team fraction: the designers.

All of them are working hard. While the results of the designers can be displayed here the work done by programmers has to wait until release to be tested.

The fact that we only can see results done by designers and artists doesn't suggest that programmers are sleeping ;)
I think "your" Spitfire will please you. It not only will have the right amount of rivets, it even will climb faster than "my" Emil, I fear guess :D

Excuse my bad english ;)

[AdMan]

Really? I read it as saying "if you’ll find anything wrong with our screenshots, please let us know." Clearly though, there may have been some sarcasm involved ;)

I'm sure Oleg didnt mean it at sarcasm, but is there ever a shortage of us not telling them what we find wrong? :grin:

[dAMOCLES]

It's entirely possible to get to hung up on detail.

However, Oleg's team are putting a lot of effort into getting the details right, this is no half arse'd shove it out the door job. If they make mistakes, because of unfamiliarity then I'm sure he appreciates the input. It is then entirley up to them to decide if they have the time, energy or need to make changes.

I'm sure Oleg's graphics artists are excellent and if they have worked for him for some time then they probably have a very good understanding and enthusiasm of the history of their armed forces. However a lot of detail about the RAF, Southern England/ NW France will be alien to them, so they are more likely to miss small details because it doesn't jump out them as wrong. If on the other hand you had a late war Mig or Yak flying at the battle of Stalingrad they would immediately know it was wrong, whereas a thick Westerner might be blissfully unaware and happily play along.

[fireflyerz]

Whenever you post something like the screenshots for this thread it is like saying, "What do you think"?

Guaranteed...there will be plenty of people that will tell you what they think.

Thats the whole point of all this forum and these updates isn't it ?...... to gain feedback to get an idea of what the public on mass is going to make of the sim and to iron out as many inaccuracies as possible before release , we , the fanbase , are without question the best team for the job and we are free as well.

[nearmiss]

Thats the whole point of all this forum and these updates isn't it ?...... to gain feedback to get an idea of what the public on mass is going to make of the sim and to iron out as many inaccuracies as possible before release , we , the fanbase , are without question the best team for the job and we are free as well.

I'm cool with it, afterall Oleg did ask for critque.

[Blackdog_kt]

The RAF battledress shown in the period photos is 99% identical to the winter issue uniform i was wearing last year when serving as a flak gunner in the Greek air force :grin:
It was the "ceremonial" uniform, used mostly in special occasions like unit inspections, taking the serviceman's oath after basic training and when you're on leave or entering/exiting the camp, as you're allowed to wear it in public
(as opposed to fatigues and overalls which is a no-no to be seen walking around in them in public during peacetime).

Well, we were on the allied side and also had a few squads fighting under RAF command in N.Africa after the country was occupied, so i guess that explains the similarities. Even the various rank isnignia have a a big resemblance. So, what i'm curious about is, what was the original use of this battledress uniform back in the 40s? Did people actually fly and fight in it or was it mostly the "look pretty" type of uniform like it is in our airforce today?

[proton45]

I'm cool with it, afterall Oleg did ask for critque.

+1, Rrrrrright you are sir!!! ;)

[Skoshi Tiger]

double post sorry!

Cheers

[Skoshi Tiger]

I think you'll find that it is evolved from actual combat clothing. From the late 18th Century through World War 1 they were used throughout British Empire. There were minor changes to colars, cuffs, lapels and pockets but the basic design was used right up to modern times, though as you say it has become more cerimonial now. The basic pattern was used by many different nations, just altered to suit the style/culture of the nation in question.

The Jackets are tailored around the chest/torso so you don't catch or snag on anything and the waist flares to give your lower body freedom. When used in conjunction with the webbing it was designed to ensure lower body freedom.

(From an Aussie POV) Just like you told us, if you saw a digger landing on the beach of Gallipoli and a modern day staff officer in dress uniform, you would recognise it as the same uniform.

I think during WWII uniforms became more practical in that they were generally chosen (or modified) to suit the conditions that the soldiers were operating in or the task that they were performing. WWII changed warfare a lot, and traditions usually came out second best)

The RAF battledress shown in the period photos is 99% identical to the winter issue uniform i was wearing last year when serving as a flak gunner in the Greek air force :grin:
It was the "ceremonial" uniform, used mostly in special occasions like unit inspections, taking the serviceman's oath after basic training and when you're on leave or entering/exiting the camp, as you're allowed to wear it in public
(as opposed to fatigues and overalls which is a no-no to be seen walking around in them in public during peacetime).

Well, we were on the allied side and also had a few squads fighting under RAF command in N.Africa after the country was occupied, so i guess that explains the similarities. Even the various rank isnignia have a a big resemblance. So, what i'm curious about is, what was the original use of this battledress uniform back in the 40s? Did people actually fly and fight in it or was it mostly the "look pretty" type of uniform like it is in our airforce today?

Now this is a general question (I don't know the answer). Before someone told us that the country name was only used by the dominion forces when they went over seas. What did the RAF servicemen wear on their shoulders when they went to Russia?

Cheers

[Avimimus]

I have great sympathy for Oleg - out of all the countries to model to his high standards he chose England - and the English document and remember. Few details slipping past this crowd...

[nearmiss]

One thing that bothers me about the BOB SOW.

I still run the BOB II WOV every now and then.

It haunts heck outta my thinking.

The .303 guns on the British aircraft

The 109E isn't that bad at least it has a cannon.

I've got enormous respect for the RAF pilots.

The lack of firepower shakes my joints to think how tough it was to get a kill.

After all the firepower of IL2 I don't know what to expect.

Maybe my expectations are ill conceived.

I sure hope so.

The way it looks --> flying the Hurricane and Spit with pea shooters against cannons

[Romanator21]

It will be really hard, but .303s don't do structural damage. They poke holes through the skin, and if you're lucky you will puncture the radiator, oil coolers/reservoir, guns, controls, fuel lines, fuel tanks, start fires, hydraulics and electrical systems. The Bf-109s should slowly bleed to death.

WWII pilots never got the kills that we get online. That can be partially attributed to our invincibility and several years of experience.

Bf-109s have cannon, but very few rounds. They also have poor forward visibility, and relatively poor maneuveribility, short time over the battle-field, etc.

One mundane detail that may not have been so mundane is the control placement in the cockpit. For us, everything is mapped to a keyboard or is automatic. Having a fully functional pit would overwhelm 90% of the fliers here.

It's worth noting that the Bf-109 has automatic engine control, but were not totally fine tuned. The trim, throttle, landing gear/flaps controls are all on one side, the pilot won't have to move his hand off the stick. On the other side of the coin, the Spitfire and Hurricane have stick that bends above the pilot's knees. This makes unhindered roll capability. The 109 pilot has to jab his stick in his thigh. It can make a huge difference.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in the end, it will be pretty close match. Don't worry about having machine guns in a Hurricane over cannons in a Bf-109.

[fireflyerz]

I'm cool with it, afterall Oleg did ask for critque.

YUP... ditto , if all this helps Oleg build the finest ww2 flight combat sim of THIS decade ...ill say no more.
303... weak ,yes ,but eight of em , thats a hell of a lot of lead flying about on a liquid cooled engine like the Db, one hit would be enough to knock it out , not to mention the big fat L shaped fuel tank the pilot was sitting on.....

I dont come to this site very often , has Oleg given any hint as to how this game is going to Sound..?

Cheers
Jafa.

[Afdn]

hehe yes the left looks like a Russian soldier after a fight :grin:

http://www.escuadrillasazules.es/components/com_agora/img/smilies/afdn_300.gif http://www.escuadrillasazules.es/components/com_agora/img/smilies/afdn_300.gif




http://i45.tinypic.com/1zq5uzn.jpg

.

PD: Mr Oleg and company
All the pictures are incredible future simulator
thank you very very much for the great work

[Lucas_From_Hell]

This decade?

"I find your lack of faith disturbing."I'd guess Storm of War will stay leading for quite a while.

Il-2 was introduced back in 2001, and we are still playing it, and it's still being upgraded over and over, previously by 1C:Maddox Games, and now by Team Daidalos. If you check the schedule, they plan to release the last update to Il-2 in mid-2011.

That's 10 years. Considering Storm of War is being made to surpass Il-2 in every possible way, and they engine is made to be very flexible (just take as an example that the next planned sim will be jets over Korea), and - a big plus - it will be friendly to modifications, I have no doubt that Storm of War will be around for at least 15 or 20 years :mrgreen:

[dAMOCLES]

Love the tache (moustache) seems to make him look more authentic for some reason.

[dAMOCLES]

The Airman with the handbag, to me his flying suit looks more like this:

http://cas.awm.gov.au/screen_img/REL30212


Luftwaffe Sommerfliegerkombi - Superb original example of the second pattern with ring pull emergency release system and vertical zip fly. Manufactured by Bekleidungsfabrik Habelf and dated 1940. Fitted with original Elite zips, complete with leather pullers, all in good working order. The size is marked as 11A. The "pepper and salt" fabric is characteristic of suits worn by bomber crews in the Battle of Britain. This suit is in the condition we dream of finding but seldom do!

and less like this:

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/OtherNations/photos/C22454full.jpg

C22454 BRITISH RAF "SIDCOT" FLIGHT SUIT. The Sidcot flight suit was invented by Australian born, Sydney Cotton, hence Sid Cot, who moved to Britain in 1910 and then later joined the Royal Naval Air Force, in 1916. From his experience as a pilot, he and his colleagues felt that they were always cold or uncomfortable. Thus in 1917, he then invented a flying suit made of cotton which was lined with silk and fur known as the Sid Cot. It later became the standard equipment for the Royal Flying Corps and remained in use throughout the Second World War. This Sidcot flight suit is in good condition, with sign of wear. The original tag is in the interior of the left side beside the front zipper. It is quite faded however, you can read; height 5 ft 8", Breast 36/38, waist 32/34. All of the other information is somewhat legible, however, some information is completely faded. There are a number of buttons on the interior, meant to attach the liners, and they are all in good condition and intact. The exterior is quite ingenious since it as a series of different pockets and buttoned flaps which enables the pilot to access the interior quickly without having to take the suit off. The suit is quite stained since it was obviously well used. Some of the stitching is quite worn, especially on the exterior where the button flaps are located. Otherwise, this suit is in great condition.

Nice link for Aviation uniforms from WW II

http://www.rathbonemuseum.com/MAIN/main.html

http://www.oldnautibits.com/stock_php/aviation_clothing_g.php

[Crunchieone]

Fantastic Oleg. :)
Most of the older iconic buildings in London at that time where covered in black grime with streaks from the rain also,this is because practically all heating was with open fires using black coal..

[virre89]

This decade?

"I find your lack of faith disturbing."I'd guess Storm of War will stay leading for quite a while.

Il-2 was introduced back in 2001, and we are still playing it, and it's still being upgraded over and over, previously by 1C:Maddox Games, and now by Team Daidalos. If you check the schedule, they plan to release the last update to Il-2 in mid-2011.

That's 10 years. Considering Storm of War is being made to surpass Il-2 in every possible way, and they engine is made to be very flexible (just take as an example that the next planned sim will be jets over Korea), and - a big plus - it will be friendly to modifications, I have no doubt that Storm of War will be around for at least 15 or 20 years :mrgreen:

10 years is probably more like it, let's not be unrealistically optimistic..

[Foo'bar]

I dont come to this site very often , has Oleg given any hint as to how this game is going to Sound..?

Unfortunately not.

[Sutts]

Thanks for the update Oleg and team. The detail you are putting into this sim is incredible. Keep up the good work. :grin:

[DuxCorvan]

According to Wikipedia -and its sources, a book by some Brian Cookson- the Tower Bridge was chocolate brown till the 1970s...

The big coat of arms in the upper pass was also added later, should not be there.

[KG26_Alpha]

According to Wikipedia -and its sources, a book by some Brian Cookson- the Tower Bridge was chocolate brown till the 1970s...

The big coat of arms in the upper pass was also added later, should not be there.

That's incorrect In fact the shields are missing from the upper walk way either side of the crest equidistant from the towers.

The metal work on the bridge was reddish brown, and the lamps dark green. as were most thing in those days it was a common colour scheme :)

http://www.thetowerbridge.info/videos/video-showing-tower-bridge-paint-analysis


Here's the restoration history of the bridge >> http://www.thetowerbridge.info/


At 1.45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmcrfY8xRMA

Also see the vid posted earlier in this thread and you see a 40's Tower bridge the same colour as the 1cTeams at approx 3 mins in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LGavykBbxM&feature=player_embedded

The "coat of arms" can be seen on both these films .

[Chivas]

One thing that bothers me about the BOB SOW.

I still run the BOB II WOV every now and then.

It haunts heck outta my thinking.

The .303 guns on the British aircraft

The 109E isn't that bad at least it has a cannon.

I've got enormous respect for the RAF pilots.

The lack of firepower shakes my joints to think how tough it was to get a kill.

After all the firepower of IL2 I don't know what to expect.

Maybe my expectations are ill conceived.

I sure hope so.

The way it looks --> flying the Hurricane and Spit with pea shooters against cannons

I don't think it will be a problem as the damage model will much more sophisticated in SOW so the kills maybe much easier in a SOW Hurricane than a IL-2 Hurricane. That said I thought the IL-2 Hurricane"s 303's were quite devastating especially when you hit at convergence.

[Zorin]

That's incorrect In fact the shields are missing from the upper walk way either side of the crest equidistant from the towers.

The metal work on the bridge was reddish brown, and the lamps dark green. as were most thing in those days it was a common colour scheme :)

http://www.thetowerbridge.info/videos/video-showing-tower-bridge-paint-analysis


Here's the restoration history of the bridge >> http://www.thetowerbridge.info/


At 1.45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmcrfY8xRMA

Also see the vid posted earlier in this thread and you see a 40's Tower bridge the same colour as the 1cTeams at approx 3 mins in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LGavykBbxM&feature=player_embedded

The "coat of arms" can be seen on both these films .

The first film is dated prior to 1920 judging by the cars and film technique. The second does show the coat of arms, but as the pictures I provided showed that they were not present from 1939-1946 it shouldn't be there in BoB. Additionally, it doesn't look like the 1C one. It is as dark as can be seen in the photographs.

[Blackdog_kt]

I think you'll find that it is evolved from actual combat clothing. From the late 18th Century through World War 1 they were used throughout British Empire. There were minor changes to colars, cuffs, lapels and pockets but the basic design was used right up to modern times, though as you say it has become more cerimonial now. The basic pattern was used by many different nations, just altered to suit the style/culture of the nation in question.

The Jackets are tailored around the chest/torso so you don't catch or snag on anything and the waist flares to give your lower body freedom. When used in conjunction with the webbing it was designed to ensure lower body freedom.

(From an Aussie POV) Just like you told us, if you saw a digger landing on the beach of Gallipoli and a modern day staff officer in dress uniform, you would recognise it as the same uniform.

I think during WWII uniforms became more practical in that they were generally chosen (or modified) to suit the conditions that the soldiers were operating in or the task that they were performing. WWII changed warfare a lot, and traditions usually came out second best)



Now this is a general question (I don't know the answer). Before someone told us that the country name was only used by the dominion forces when they went over seas. What did the RAF servicemen wear on their shoulders when they went to Russia?

Cheers

Cheers, thanks for the information. I couldn't for the life of me imagine myself crawling on the ground with a G3 in hand, standing guard for 5-8 hours per day (too hot for the Greek summer and too cold for the humid winters we have) or doing maintenance on the Rheinmetall twins we used with that uniform and polished shoes in place of the camo fatigues and standard boots, but then again i was a conscript serving on a ground posting.

On the other hand, i guess that the blue battledress was initially used by flight crew before becoming widespread in other specialists and that makes more sense. There's not too much crawling on the ground inside an airplane and from a couple period films i've seen, it seems that they used to wear the shipskin overalls and boots over whatever other uniform they were using to deal with the cold anyway, so the battledress was somewhat suitable as an inner layer because it wraps around the body and is not loose like the fatigues. Makes more sense that way :-)

The similarity is astonishing though, even the buckle on the belt of the jacket is identical and i think the side hats are almost exact copies as well.

[luthier]

Thanks guys for all the corrections, we'll get on right away!

One more question. What's up with these caltrop things on the bridge? Pre-war photos show them on, and a lot of wartime photos have them missing. It looks like they were still there during the Battle, is that correct?

Should we have them on or off?

[dAMOCLES]

Good grief, you're not supposed to take our nit picking seriously, we're just filling in time and being a pain. ;);):grin:

[dAMOCLES]

The missing parts, look like typical Gothic finials, probably made from stone, and probably removed because they proved unsafe with the vibration from the traffic or draw bridge. I suspect one fell off, and the remainder were then removed for safety subsequently being replaced during restoration after being strengthened or redesigned.


http://www.samwarrenimages.co.uk/USERIMAGES/Top%20of%20Tower%20Bridge_%20London478.JPG

[dAMOCLES]

British Pathe is always a good source of Information films during this period.

Here's a nice one entitled "Knights of the air"

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=74753

[ECV56_Lancelot]

Thanks guys for all the corrections, we'll get on right away!

One more question. What's up with these caltrop things on the bridge? Pre-war photos show them on, and a lot of wartime photos have them missing. It looks like they were still there during the Battle, is that correct?

Should we have them on or off?

Seeing the pictures posted by Zorin, i would leave them off. Even if in one of those pictures they are there.
Also, its the breadth of the road correct? By the pictures of Zorin, it seems there is enough space to put 4 cars side by side, and by image of the model, it looks there is enough space just for two, maybe three. Still, i might be getting a wrong impression.

[KG26_Alpha]

The first film is dated prior to 1920 judging by the cars and film technique. The second does show the coat of arms, but as the pictures I provided showed that they were not present from 1939-1946 it shouldn't be there in BoB. Additionally, it doesn't look like the 1C one. It is as dark as can be seen in the photographs.


Well something was there perhaps check your timeline crest is on in early WW2

http://www.bbrclub.org/Balloon_over_Tower_Bridge.gif

London, September 7 , 1940

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/ww2-pix/london13.jpg

HMS Corunna, Tower Bridge, 1955 / 56.

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/images/forum_hmscorunna5.jpg

1968 still no crest

http://www.ltmcollection.org/images/webmax/ef/i0000eef.jpg

It don't match your dtaes

[DuxCorvan]

Well, at least from the second movie we know how ominous sounded Handel's Concerto Op.6 nº12 at A440 Hz pitch and in a degraded soundtrack. Thank God for A415/422 authentic pitches.

As for the bridge, well, it looks like the "gothic" thingies and the coats were there at the start of war, but not some time after. Can we have two models, one for BoB and another for later V1-V2 London scenarios? Looks a bit too nitpicky for me, but if it can be done -at least for mission builders...

No doubt, the bridge was overall darker then.

[ECV56_Lancelot]

Well something was there perhaps check your timeline crest is on in early WW2

http://www.bbrclub.org/Balloon_over_Tower_Bridge.gif

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/ww2-pix/london13.jpg



Wow, by this two pictures, looks like the insignia on the main strut should be there, like it is on the 3d model posted by Oleg.
All this pictures are very confusing.

[Zorin]

I'm sure if one of you native speakers would write the Tower Bridge historians a kind mail asking about the colour, condition and coats they would be happy to help out.

[major_setback]

I don't know a date for this, but clothing looks later than the war. 50's or '60s.
Colours may be hand tinted too.

http://www.oldukphotos.com/graphics/England%20Photos/London,%20Tower%20Bridge.jpg

One for fun :-)

Date 1892:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Tower_bridge_works_1892.jpg

[KG26_Alpha]

I'm sure if one of you native speakers would write the Tower Bridge historians a kind mail asking about the colour, condition and coats they would be happy to help out.

Look at the links I provided regarding the restoration.

Paint analysis bridge

http://www.thetowerbridge.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/tower-bridge-paint-analysis-cross-section-of-the-helm.jpg

Paint analysis lights

http://www.thetowerbridge.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/tower-bridge-paint-analysis-lamp-stand.jpg

As already mentioned the bridge was reddish brown and the lights geen

I see nothing wrong with the 1c teams modelling of the bridge for the time span its intended

[Insuber]

I'm starting to feel all this bridge detail hunt a little exaggerated. What's next, a request for progressive weathering of the bridge paint ? Priorities ...

[ECV56_LeChuck]

:grin:
No no... the colour of the pilot socks will be the next discussion :rolleyes:... nothing new on this forum about discussions

[Tree_UK]

The bridge was painted 'Thames Blue' during the war so that it could not be spotted from above by enemy aircraft, but it was later changed back after far too many civilian vehicles drove straight into the river.

[dAMOCLES]

Don't be daft, they didn't wear socks.

Woman's underwear perhaps, but socks absolutely not.

[AndyJWest]

The bridge was painted 'Thames Blue' during the war...:grin:
I doubt if the Thames has been blue since the Romans arrived. A muddy brown with the occasional dead dog would be closer...:-P

[Tree_UK]

:grin:
I doubt if the Thames has been blue since the Romans arrived. A muddy brown with the occasional dead dog would be closer...:-P

Now we are back to the whole detail thing again......

[KG26_Alpha]

I'm starting to feel all this bridge detail hunt a little exaggerated. What's next, a request for progressive weathering of the bridge paint ? Priorities ...

Me too

But as a Londoner I saw some details posted here that were incorrect and it was difficult not to correct especially as were were invited to "comment" by Oleg on the posted updates.

Im not a chart monkey but the links I had provided hadn't been viewed and I simply put a visual aid to help.

[major_setback]

:grin:
I doubt if the Thames has been blue since the Romans arrived. A muddy brown with the occasional dead dog would be closer...:-P

LoL..OK then: it was painted a muddy brown, but they changed it after too many dogs ran straight into the river :-).

The model looks fine to me, by the way. I think there is absolutely no need to alter it.

[Igo kyu]

:grin:
I doubt if the Thames has been blue since the Romans arrived. A muddy brown with the occasional dead dog would be closer...:-P
Wadda ya mean, Romans? That mud is good natural mud, not pollution (mostly, even now), and it's been like that since long before the Romans.

[jippy13]

Hi Oleg,

Here in Marseille, we also had a bridge destroyed by the Germans in 1944.

Maybe you could use the attached pictures for creating a mission over Marseille ... who knows:)

[fireflyerz]

The bridge was painted 'Thames Blue' during the war so that it could not be spotted from above by enemy aircraft, but it was later changed back after far too many civilian vehicles drove straight into the river.

If thats true , thats well funny......"isnit" ,"standed":mrgreen:

[Foo'bar]

Hi Oleg,

Here in Marseille, we also had a bridge destroyed by the Germans in 1944.

Evil dzermanz http://foorum.mexxoft.com/images/smilies/fffuuu.png

[brando]

Water is naturally clear, and the perception of colour is dependant on particles suspended in it and light reflected from it. Therefore it's also dependant on time of day, nature of weather, and state of tide. (The Thames is tidal all the way up to Teddington lock) Thus the river looks browner as the tide goes out and the mudbanks are exposed - with the other extreme being altogether dependant on sunlight, cloud cover, blueness of sky and so on.

I wouldn't want to rely on hand-coloured photos or some of the cine-film which seems to have more garish hues than reality. Suffice to say that at full tide on a sunny day it looks at its best, but it never obtains the Mediterannean blue that the tourist photos suggest.

As far as the models are concerned, they look great! My request is to reproduce the drab result of over fifty years of unremitting coal smoke which polluted all of the buildings in London. Tower Bridge as modelled looks entirely convincing, just too clean and bright.

B

[KG26_Alpha]

I've taken hundreds of pics from on the River Thames

And be sure its mostly brown sandy mud silty colour.

Although I've seen it quite blue greeny looking in places also.

Here's some pics from my own collection showing how brown the water usually is, also overcast days makes it look murky too as the light cant hit the water to well..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/alpha1/DSCN1371copy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/alpha1/DSCN1430copy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/alpha1/DSCF1474.jpg

[Igo kyu]

Further to how murky rivers in the UK can be, this satellite photo was from the time of the snow a couple of weeks ago, you can't see the Thames for cloud unfortunately, but look how far the brown extends out to sea from the river in the south west. If the mud from the Thames extends a third as far, then you'll never see blue water in London.

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/2010007-0107/GreatBritain.A2010007.1150.1km.jpg

[mungee]

Hehe!

If I'm not mistaken, the colour of water is affected by the position of the sun in relation to the camera - if one is taking the pic facing the sun, the water will appear brown - if the sun is behind you, it will appear blue. That's "more brown" and "more blue"!!
I'm nowhere near water now to test this out (it's also nightime here in South Africa at the moment).
Anyone else hear that explanation? - I recall my father (a keen photographer in his day) telling me this.

[Igo kyu]

Hehe!

If I'm not mistaken, the colour of water is affected by the position of the sun in relation to the camera - if one is taking the pic facing the sun, the water will appear brown - if the sun is behind you, it will appear blue. That's "more brown" and "more blue"!!
This is irrelevant to the opacity of the water, as in KG26_Alpha's photo by the steps, you will see nothing down through it. The sea at Dover would probably be a very different matter, but the Thames in London will be opaque.

[KG26_Alpha]

Hehe!

If I'm not mistaken, the colour of water is affected by the position of the sun in relation to the camera - if one is taking the pic facing the sun, the water will appear brown - if the sun is behind you, it will appear blue. That's "more brown" and "more blue"!!
I'm nowhere near water now to test this out (it's also nightime here in South Africa at the moment).
Anyone else hear that explanation? - I recall my father (a keen photographer in his day) telling me this.

Pictures of the same beach at Brighton (South coast of England).
Taken with sun behind and in front of the camera, same result as far as I can see :).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/alpha1/DSCF1060.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/alpha1/DSCF1026.jpg

[Spinnetti]

Look very much like people. I'd say you hit the mark. I'm kinda curious what you plan to do with them, since I spend all my time inside the cockpit.

I don't like moving knees and hands in cockpit, because with no peripheral vision those items usually block the instruments,etc.

I very much disagree and think its unrealistic without your arms and hands in the way... with 6dof there's no reason you shouldn't be able to see instruments.. Ghost pilots are a big gap for me!

[Oleg Maddox]

Hehe!

If I'm not mistaken, the colour of water is affected by the position of the sun in relation to the camera - if one is taking the pic facing the sun, the water will appear brown - if the sun is behind you, it will appear blue. That's "more brown" and "more blue"!!
I'm nowhere near water now to test this out (it's also nightime here in South Africa at the moment).
Anyone else hear that explanation? - I recall my father (a keen photographer in his day) telling me this.

the colors depending of camera matrix (film) and physics of light rays going in and out of water.
Color in reality and fixed by camera are always different. No one photo without corrections with speciall rules show real colors when you make a picture of water on a big space.

[RedToo]

1927 colour film of London showing Tower Bridge:

http://www.flixxy.com/london-1927-historical-film.htm

RedToo.

[Lonely Ringer]

OK people ... leave Oleg alone ... scheesshh ..... nufs enough.

[PeterPanPan]

Tower Bridge has recently been undergoing major restoration. They have been carrying out paint analysis to see what colours the bridge used to be. I have seen a picture showing layers of paint going back to the 1960s, but no earlier. I am making further enquiries to see what I can find about the 1940s.

PPanPan

OK, so according to an official source from Tower Bridge itself ...

"As far as we know, records indicate that the Bridge was painted a bright chocolate colour in the 1940s, which is the same colour you can still see inside the Bridge."

Hope this helps

PPanPan

[Rodolphe42]

...

These aerial pictures were taken in August 1931 from the Graf Zeppelin during a trip to England .



Brighton, the seaside resort on the English Channel.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Bright.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Brighton.jpg



The Thames bend with the London Charing cross railway station and the Savoy hotel.
On the left side, a part of the Trafalgar Square with the Nelson's Column and the Admiralty Arch with the Mall leading to the Buckingham palace.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/CharingC.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/NelsonSäule.jpg







Westminster Bridge crossing The Thames with the Parliament building on the bank.
On the foreground, the Gothic Westminster Cathedral with its twin towers.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Parliam.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Westminster.jpg






London City :
From the front right, Fleet Street, the newsagent's centre, leads to Saint Pauls Cathedral.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/StPauls.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/StPaulsKathedrale.jpg



The aerial photo shows the Towerof London, the ancient city stronghold with the Tower Bridge behind.
On the left, a part of the Saint Catherine docks.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/TBridge.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/TowerBridge1.jpg




...

[Stiboo]

some great old pics there!

Regards

Stiboo