I have a damage model question for DT/IL2 & Oleg/SOW...

[Bearcat]

I was just thinking of something... are G forces factored into the damage model. In other words... when I hit the wing of a plane that is say in a tight turn trying to avoid me is the DM the same as if that plane were flying straight and level? Or is there a difference... In real life it would seem that the stresses of G forces on a wing in a turn would make it even more susceptible to weapons fire if hit at a structural stress point... I never really paid attention to it in this sim.. but I was just curious... and also.. if that is not modelled into IL2.. will it be in the DM of SoW? I imagine it would...

[MikkOwl]

Is there any difference if the plane is in the same wing-stressing position before or after the damage?

I.e. if damage inflicted is the same in either case, and this damage indicates the wing will snap at 'this much' stress, the wing will then come apart at 'this much stress' - happening later when turning that much, or instantly if the wing was in the process of it when the damage occured.

[Flanker35M]

S!

There is a difference MikkOwl. If the wing is under heavy load, for example in a tight turn and getting damaged by MG and/or cannon fire, it will result in critical failure much easier. A wing is designed to be able to deal with a certain amount of stress (G-load) and added external damage lowers this threshold considerably.

My physics are a bit rusty, but put it like this..In a tight turn the wing is under stress and forces try to bend it upwards due aerodynamics and weight of the aircraft(vectors). Now a burst of MG/cannon fire hits the stressed structure from above. Aircraft skin is a part of structure and gets severely damaged/torn away and internal structure is hit as well. This may weaken the wing beyond it's structural limits thus it snaps. Without damage it would hold.

So it would be nice to have this, but again how much fidelity do we want at the expense of the performance of the game?

[MikkOwl]

I see, so if one was hit by the same cannon shell, in the exact same place causing damage to the stress bearing parts of the wing, while flying level, and then commited to the same hardcore stressed turn, the wing would be far less likely to fail?

[Flanker35M]

S!

It might not fail in level flight, but would limit the wing's ability to withstand G-forces as the skin is damaged/torn away and having internal damage in the spars etc. Aircraft skin is a part of bearing the forces. If sitting in a plane you can see how it "buckles" in a tight turn between the rivet lines. Now if the skin is missing due damage and internal parts got hit, the movement is bigger thus allowing the wing to bend more and structural overload might make the wing snap off.

[MikkOwl]

Let us assume that SoW does not take loading into account when deciding how much damage to apply to a wing when a cannon shell strikes.

Let's also say that a wing will definitely fail if having X amount of damage at a 6G loading (I am certain it works like this in SoW at least).

Example 1:

If hit when flying straight, it wouldn't fail when recieving this X amount of damage

But afterwards when pulling over 6Gs, it would fail.

Example 2:

If hit while enduring the 6G loading, it would fail. Because wing now had X damage and was over the 6G limit.

Summary:

Doesn't this already-in-place-most-likely already provide what the opening post asked for, even with the damage model for cannon shells applied ignoring wing-loading, and the wing instead just breaking because it had too much damage for the G-loading?

[Flanker35M]

S!

The thing is that it all depends on the damage. How critical it is, where it is etc. A wing might hold a bit longer in level flight but certainly break under load..or have damage and still being able to withstand some maneuvers. Really hard to calculate as going this deep to structural modelling combined with modelling of gun damage + aerodynamical effects on the damaged area etc. would require a heapload of CPU power.

So I bet SoW will use something simplified but yet realistic enough. And your summary would be pretty close to it I guess.

[Avimimus]

In Il-2 the answer is no.

Oleg already confirmed, as of last year, that this feature would be in SoW BoB.

Disclaimer: I am not Oleg Maddox. So, If I get a detail wrong don't blame Oleg - blame me.

[SaQSoN]

Disclaimer: I am not Oleg Maddox. So, If I get a detail wrong don't blame Oleg - blame me.

Good point. Because, in Il-2 the answer is YES

[Modding_Monkey]

Good point. Because, in Il-2 the answer is YES

Actually Your wrong.

It's NO!

If you take a Mk108 in the wing in level flight and pull a turn. It falls off.
If you take a Mk108 in the wing in a TURN it falls off.

Damage is the EXACT SAME. Difference is the G's

The Gs are what is ripping your wings off no the "Extra" damage.