Friday 2010-01-22 Screenshots AND Discussion Thread

[luthier]

Hello everyone,

We're moving offices, so our FTP site is going to be offline for a while as we relocate our servers. It came as a bit of a surprise for us. All older screenshots will be offline for a while. We apologize.

Here are some new shots for today, showing:

1. BR-20M radio room
2. BR-20M bombardier's position
3. Lorenz approach aid with fancy hut (fully operational)
4. More details of our tanker

We hope you like this week's update!

[Edit] And a fancy video, courtesy of MuxaHuk:
friday bonus :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMFFQGryWhk

You can download the HD version of this video here (http://www.1cfiles.com/httpd/IL2_CliffsofDover/spitfire.avi).

[kestrel79]

Radio room looks great! Hopefully that can be a crewed position on a bomber. That would be fun in a multiperson crewed plane online.

The shadows the ship shot look very nice as well.

Only thing is I would like to see some of the real terrain instead of the place holder stuff, but I know it's WIP and it will come when it's ready. Great work all, good luck with the move.

[Qpassa]

The shadow of the rudder of the boat is bit weird

[Oleg Maddox]

The shadow of the rudder of the boat is bit weird

Do you think you may see it from the flying aircraft? :)
Also, it is not maxed graphics settings. It is DX9 shots.

[David603]

The ships models are beautiful detailed, indeed they compare very well with anything I have seen in a ship simulator, so I don't think anyone should be complaining about their quality.

On question though, what warships will be modeled?

Obviously the presence of battleships, aircraft carriers or even cruisers would be unlikely in the English Channel, but there would be warships ranging down in size from destroyers to motor torpedo boats, so will we see any of these?

[Flanker35M]

S!

Looks nice :)

[Qpassa]

Do you think you may see it from the flying aircraft? :)
Also, it is not maxed graphics settings. It is DX9 shots.
That 's true ,just I was saying what can I see in the screenshot, when I fly I really dont mind in that kind of details ;)

[SlipBall]

The detail is great looking!...I think that the water look's like the real thing, nice work.:grin:

[335th_GRSwaty]

Thank you luthier!

I like radio room lighting!

[Avimimus]

Wouldn't it be nice if you can do visible damage to ships by straffing? In real life pilots often straffed ships - not because they could sink them - but because it did damage to crew and equipment.

[76.IAP-Blackbird]

Hi Oleg. as I saw this new Water I was amazed, nothing more to say or complain... I will buy it as it is... your work and support is without any comparison!!!

[NGWgwailo]

I love you oleg and crew. I want this game to be a huge commercial success you guys deserve it because of all your hard work. The updates have me really excited to see your work in DX 11. I know its quite a ways to go but i am excited for 2010. Keep up the good work. The level of detail is amazing.

[Wutz]

Those two platforms on the bow & stern of the tanker, are they going to be for a cannon or anti aircraft gun?

[brando]

The shadow of the rudder of the boat is bit weird

By "rudder" I presume you mean the steering wheel, as the rudder is found at the back of a ship and is normally underwater? :)
The wheel assembly, binnacle and port & starboard indicators are very well shown, and I don't find any problem with their shadow. The sun is fairly low, forward of the ship and slightly left, so an elongated shadow cast onto rough deck-planking is going to look very similar to what you see in the screenshot. It'd be a shame to strafe this beauty!

A pleasing set of shots altogether - lovely detail.

B

[Qpassa]

I tried to say this:
http://www.nautilus21.com/catalog/images/timon_reloj_madera_885_hi.jpg
I used a dictionary ,now I see it 's a bad dictionary :D

[sweln]

Well as usual the modelisation is really neat, and it looks like SoW will be the most detailed sim out there.

About the water, I believe it's still WIP because it isn't yet 2010 quality for a sim.

I hope the water will be quality equivalent of Silent Hunter 4 (would be fair, that game is 3 years old now and a top notch 2010 flight sim could have that, or Silent Hunter 5, by considering that SoW would probably be played as long as Il-2).

> graphics can easily be tuned in options, if beautifull water asks too much FPS, take a lower setting! :)

Stuff here from Silent Hunter 5 :
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5753/sh5contestscreensbismar.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5753/sh5contestscreensbismar.jpg

[ECV56_Lancelot]

Loved the bobardier position, ship and radio transmitter
To be honest, i don´t like the radio room, those rotarys wheels with the "metal crown" labeled "SINTONIA AEREO", "CIRCUITO PILOTA" and the other you can see on the three boxes, looks flat. Its obvious that the 3d effect it´s on the texture instead of the 3d object. If the poly limit allows it, it would be better to add some polys there and make the instrument a little more detailed to improve 3d effect, like you see on the red lever on the lower right box.

Thanks for the nice update. :)

[Alien]

Got AWESOME question which wasn't quested EVER!!! Will canopy frame bend when hit the ground???

[MuxaHuk]

friday bonus :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQbCIT-aMnY

[76.IAP-Blackbird]

That is a freaking porno SOW vid!!!

[ECV56_Lancelot]

You are f&%ing kidding me!! What sim is that video? Where did you get it? It looks awesome!. Is it BoP?
I find a hard time to beleive its SoW, not for the graphics, but because i don´t know who are you and your relation to SoW.

[1.JaVA_Sharp]

if that's supposed to be SoW, then I'm in heat.

[Blackdog_kt]

Soooo, we see a radio room position for bombers and Lorenz nav-aid stations that are fully operational. If any of you still don't get it, it seems like we'll be able to drop bombs in the night with help from electronic equipment. It might not have been a terribly big part of the battle of Britain (both sides used it however, the RAF in night fighter radars and the LW for blind bombing), but i'm getting goosebumps just thinking of an add-on about Lancasters and Mosquitos going against LW twin-engined night-fighters. ;)

As for the spitifire video, well, i can't say much except....OH...YEAH! That is all :cool:

[Dano]

Well it certainly isn't any version of Wings of Prey that I've seen, pit looks like Storm of War, water looks like Storm of War, cloud looks like Storm of War...

Want, want now.

:D

[HFC_Dolphin]

Is this really SOW?
Anyone who can confirm?

[luthier]

That is indeed what you think it is.

[ECV56_Lancelot]

Well it certainly isn't any version of Wings of Prey that I've seen, pit looks like Storm of War, water looks like Storm of War, cloud looks like Storm of War...


Fully agree, but a new guy come with this video, and without any clarification about it, make´s me doubt. Maybe i´m just too distrustfull.

[HFC_Dolphin]

That is indeed what you think it is.

Yupie!!!!

[ECV56_Lancelot]

That is indeed what you think it is.

COOL! Now i BELEIVE!!!

What can i say? IT LOOKS TERRIFIC!, i can´t stop watching it! :grin:

[Tbag]

Now we're talking! Very nice!

[Tbag]

Is that still DX9?

[HFC_Dolphin]

The Shadows, oh, the shadows :-)

I know that now we'll all have a wonderful weekend guys!!!

[MuxaHuk]

You are f&%ing kidding me!! What sim is that video? Where did you get it? It looks awesome!. Is it BoP?
I find a hard time to beleive its SoW, not for the graphics, but because i don´t know who are you and your relation to SoW.
sorry, i simply wished to look reaction.
i am graphics programmer at SoW team :)
we have technical problems with internet connection at work, and i have post this video at home.
btw, all team members is reading this forum :)

[Dano]

I keep watching it and wishing the pilot would head overland lol :D

Looks awesome, and very smooth too :)

[Baron]

Omg.

[PilotError]

sorry, i simply wished to look reaction.
i am graphics programmer at SoW team :)
we have technical problems with internet connection at work, and i have post this video at home.
btw, all team members is reading this forum :)

WOW !

I remember my jaw hitting the floor the first time I played IL2 way back in 2004 ( I know I'm quite late to the sim compared to others :) ).

I've just had to pick my jaw off the floor again.

WOW !

Of course this makes it all the harder now to wait for SoW to be released :grin:

[KG26_Alpha]

friday bonus :)
]

Nice Bonus

[ECV56_Lancelot]

...
btw, all team members is reading this forum :)

Well, in that case this would be the perfect oportunity to insult them, but since the video it´s so good, i´ll let it pass and say:

EXCELLENT WORK!! It looks better and better every day!. And it does looks photorealistic to me!
Keep it up!

[Viking]

If this is SoW we are in BIG trouble!
I keep screaming “ Mind your airspeed!”, “Keep your wings level!”,”The airspeed!! Airspeed you idiot!”, “Noooooooo!”.
If this is my AI wingman I am DEAD!
;)
Regards
Viking

Ps! Very nice!

And bytheway that place on top of the tanker is caled "monkey island" and is a place for emergency stearing of the ship. The bridge deck is below.

[luthier]

I keep screaming “ Mind your airspeed!”, “Keep your wings level!”,”The airspeed!! Airspeed you idiot!”

I was flying that plane you know.

[Dano]

I was flying that plane you know.

You need more practice, go fly some more and post the vids up, we'll all happily give you some more advice ;)

[Foo'bar]

Ilya, please pass your licence... :D

[Viking]

I was flying that plane you know.

I should have known!

Regards

Viking

[choctaw111]

Thanks again, Oleg, for showing us your progress.

[Tree_UK]

That video was the best update we have ever had, very very impressive. :grin::grin:

[kendo65]

Don't know what caused my jaw to drop further...watching the great video...or hearing Tree_UK say something complimentary

:) ;)

[Qpassa]

I jizzed in my pants

[13th Hsqn Protos]

Signs of life ...... better.

I watched it in 720p HD ... spit pit was more washed out than the ones I have seen in real life .... but I guess thats a 'style' choice.

Little bit more headshake/buffeting than I would like (spit was incredibly stable)

No other objects around to judge scaling ...... but I hope we will not have IL2 'midjet' scale again.

Good WIP update for a change :cool:
How about some fps numbers over that water ?

[SlipBall]

Signs of life ...... better.



Little bit more headshake/buffeting than I would like (spit was incredibly stable)





There is a tremendous amount of shaking in a light aircraft most of the time, and mostly at the lower altitudes. Flying is what it is and I hope it is not dumbed down from complaints,

[Flyby]

Do you think you may see it from the flying aircraft? :)
Also, it is not maxed graphics settings. It is DX9 shots.
Hey Oleg,
Do you own a DX11 graphics card? If so, toss that puppy in your test system and pop out a few DX10 or DX11 screenies. Is that possible?
Flyby out
PS the DX9 shots look great at any rate.

[335th_GRSwaty]

There is a tremendous amount of shaking in a light aircraft most of the time, and mostly at the lower altitudes. Flying is what it is and I hope it is not dumbed down from complaints,

+1

Just wait for inside views.

By the way loved start up procedure! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzsJBjbCyvM

[13th Hsqn Protos]

There is a tremendous amount of shaking in a light aircraft most of the time, and mostly at the lower altitudes. Flying is what it is and I hope it is not dumbed down from complaints,


The luftwhiners are crying already ..... some of us actually fly for real in 'light planes' and don't have much use for the words of 'keyboard flyers' :rolleyes:

[HenFre]

What a stupid and utterly useless remark Protos :roll: Even if you are right.. Which by the way you are not ;)

Look at the video posted by 335th_GRSwaty at around 7:20 and tell me that there are no shaking at low altitudes.

Also wanted to say that the video from inside SOW:BOB is looking mighty fine. Love the shadow in the cockpit and the reflections on the water.. Wooow..

[zakkandrachoff]

for a second i was thinking that oleg loves so much the ugly Italian bombers, all the time posting the italian bombers, but that video, that video my friend,

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae188/zakkandrachoff/spitfireavi.jpg

nice:cool:
with sound will be a 9.9, but is a 9.89 of score;)

[CrazySchmidt]

That in cockpit vid of the Spit is just absolutely bloody amazing!! Now I am feeling very excited about the SoW release, it just can't come soon enough.

Cheers, CrazySchmidt. :)

[akdavis]

Official reaction video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4

[ECV56_Lancelot]

The luftwhiners are crying already ..... some of us actually fly for real in 'light planes' and don't have much use for the words of 'keyboard flyers' :rolleyes:

So it seems for the flyingonrailroadwhiners!

Besides, the post have none relation with being a luftwhiner, and that the spitfire was stable its independent of that it would vibrate because of wind, buffeting or other reason.
Juts because an aircraft its stable doesn't mean it will not vibrate.

[Avala]

Why I can't see the atached images? Is there some problem? Moderators, administarators, please?

[Novotny]

Thank you very much for the updates, gentlemen!

[Qpassa]

Why I can't see the atached images? Is there some problem? Moderators, administarators, please?

We're moving offices, so our FTP site is going to be offline for a while as we relocate our servers. It came as a bit of a surprise for us. All older screenshots will be offline for a while. We apologize.

[kendo65]

I liked the Spitfire startup and flight video - great ground detail, but I thought the cockpit was a bit washed out.

:cool:

[philip.ed]

That video was the best update we have ever had, very very impressive. :grin::grin:


What, no knit-picking? No 'you better step your game up Oleg' remarks? I really am impressed! LOL.

That video is awesome; I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now :grin:

[tagTaken2]

+1

Just wait for inside views.

By the way loved start up procedure! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzsJBjbCyvM


That was great. Solid commentary, not hyped up and I see what you mean about the buffeting (wondering why the cockpit looked odd, then clicked that the sights were missing :)

The SoW video looks like heavy turbulence, that AS indicator is really jumping around.

Fantastic to see game footage like this, keep it coming.

What's with the office space troubles? Someone forget to drop off the rent?

[AdMan]

love the headshake and needles jumping around, this is going to be intense in dogfight

[RAF74_Winger]

There is a tremendous amount of shaking in a light aircraft most of the time

Not that much, no. Yes, I do know. I've flown around England in light aircraft in all weathers for many years. The only kind of buffeting that I've experienced that even approaches that shown is at very low level (<1000ft), and with gusting windspeeds in excess of 35kts. Yes, you do get 'bumps' with turbulence and convective action, but they are of large amplitude and very low frequency.

A more realistic depiction of turbulence would be dropping a wing as you fly through the edge of a gust, or the VSI indicating large variations in climb or descent with consequent movement of the pilot's head. Perhaps also the 'wobble' that you sometimes experience when climbing through the top of an inversion layer and encounter a bit of windshear.

One interesting point to note is that the stall buffet is sometimes called the 'nibble'; which is a useful change in terminology, indicating that it is so light in certain aircraft that you won't notice it unless you're paying attention. The Pitts will give you virtually no warning at all, except for the extreme rearward position of the stick.

Another thing is that the ASI needle doesn't really rattle about in turbulence like the video shows, the inertia of the whole ASI system & bourdon tube is too great for it to do that. However, going through windshear you will sometimes see the needle rise or fall a large amount, dependent on the amount of shear. Very scary on final: Add power, go around, and be ready for it next time.

Nevertheless, I am seriously impressed by that video; very, very close to the real thing. Congratulations are to be extended to all involved.

W.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

You can't tell the truth like that to the keyboard jockeys in here ....... :grin:

[bhunter2112]

Thank you very much for the MAJOR update. The pic's were great but this video is looking unreal! Now get back to work. I need this game. Wallet opening!

[SlipBall]

@ 335th_GRSwaty

Thankyou, very nice...


@ 13th Hsqn Protos or RAF Winger

You are easily offended, sorry...I only spoke from experience

[RAF74_Winger]

You are easily offended, sorry...I only spoke from experience

Not offended at all. Your experience differs from mine, that's all.

W.

[Qpassa]

please no flamewars :)

[Foo'bar]

We're moving offices, so our FTP site is going to be offline for a while as we relocate our servers. It came as a bit of a surprise for us. All older screenshots will be offline for a while. We apologize.

January 2010 SoW development screenshots (http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/storm-of-war-offizielle-screenshots-januar-2010/)

[HarryKlein]

The clouds around 1:13 looks fantastic !!!

[Modding_Monkey]

That is indeed what you think it is.

Hi Luthier. Did you get my Message that was sent to you?

[dflion]

Thanks luthier,
Liked the Spitfire cockpit vid - looks very good. Also liked the working Lorenz approach radar and the great ship detail - would be interested in a list of ships you are creating for BOB SOW?
Have a good move - moves are always a bit stressful, so hang-in there.
DFLion

[fireflyerz]

Looks just how I hoped it would , now my editing fingers are gettin ready....

[Majo]

Thank you for the video, maybe this was what we all were looking for...
Very interesting indeed !

Is there any reason to have so many elaborated shadows in the cockpit but no propeller?

I can see, mainly from the clouds’ shadows on the water and land, that you maintain certain distance for the rendering of the clouds or “cloud pop-up”
as it was called in some old posts 4.09b & landgeom=3 related.

Has this distance has been increased in SoW compare to il2?

From what I see I can sincerely appreciate how much work has been done, from what I don’t see I can also realize how much work is left. :)

Salutes & best wishes,
Majo.

PD.
Please consider…
The amount of inputs we are receiving lately with the SoW updates, patch 4.09m and the Daidalos Team's plans for future patches are making this site
a little confusing. :confused:

Even though we all are a happy family, don’t you think it’s time for everyone to have its own breathing space?

Thank you again.

[zapatista]

Oleg,

thanks for the posting of the cockpit video, it looks fantastic !! very realistic sense of being in a physical cockpit now

great to see the gunsight working in such detail, and the illuminated reticle staying the correct size as the pilot leans forward and back (i even measured it to be sure to be sure :) )

[BadAim]

Official reaction video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4

That was the funniest Video I've ever seen, I laughed till I ..........jizzed in my pants. LOL.

[BadAim]

You can't tell the truth like that to the keyboard jockeys in here ....... :grin:

Your a piece of work Protos. Do you have trouble getting that Ego through doorways?

[Chivas]

Despite Protos antagonistic style this video of inside a Spit cockpit is rather smooth.

YouTube - "Kent Spitfire" in-cockpit display at Biggin Hill 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A33ThFYEZNs

That said I have no clue how much if any air turbulence there was in the video and what the simulated conditions were in the SOW video.

either way the SOW video is first rate.

edit: after taking another look I realized the camera was fixed to the airframe so it would look much smoother than the same camera affixed to the pilot helmet

[13th Hsqn Protos]

not really ..... if the ship is not buffetting why would the pilots head (your body/neck acts as a damper ;) ) ..... I have run into all sorts of low altitude turbulence ..... and it never does to a plane/glider what it does in IL2 or that vid ...... as RAF Winger confirmed there is nothing close to that kind of amplitude or violence.

The comment about dropping a wing or a short 'bump' are much more accurate.

[airmalik]

thanks for the great update Oleg and team. Loved the movie.

I'm not a Spitfire expert but according to this site (http://www.spitfiresite.com/reference/variants-technology/2009/03/anatomy-of-spitfire-cockpit.htm) (Anatomy of the Spitfire cockpit - great site BTW):

The panel and most of the other instrumentation were painted in black, providing contrast from the Interior Green of the structural elements.

http://www.spitfiresite.com/reference/variants-technology/2009/03/anatomy-of-spitfire-cockpit/images/02es09_016.jpg

Regarding the amount of turbulence, it does seem excessive but then I've only been in such turbulence in a much slower plane. As someone else mentioned it seems the frequency of the bumps is too high. It almost seems like the engine is about to come apart. I also wouldn't expect the RPM needle to jump around like that in turbulence but I WOULD expect that from the canopy handle/wire ;-)

Love to see a complete overcast video next!

cheers

[diveplane]

friday bonus :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQbCIT-aMnY

no audio hmmm?

wops visuals are every bit as good imo.

plz have a option for cockpit shake on or off. for many like me its horrid , and can affect track ir movements.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

The panel and most of the other instrumentation were painted in black, providing contrast from the Interior Green of the structural elements.

http://www.spitfiresite.com/reference/variants-technology/2009/03/anatomy-of-spitfire-cockpit/images/02es09_016.jpg

Regarding the amount of turbulence, it does seem excessive but then I've only been in such turbulence in a much slower plane. As someone else mentioned it seems the frequency of the bumps is too high. It almost seems like the engine is about to come apart. I also wouldn't expect the RPM needle to jump around like that in turbulence but I WOULD expect that from the canopy handle/wire ;-)


What ????? ............ Protos said cockpit was washed out ...... hmmm = wtf does Pro know ........
Oleg and Luthier that is a 'realistic' pit ... how about making it look like that (at least colors) and forget about 'weathering cockpits'

[tagTaken2]

wops visuals are very bit as good imo.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!

Book in for an eye test.

[KG26_Alpha]

Regarding the buffeting shaking comments.

Its bouncing due to the way its being flown, looks like some fast hard manoeuvring speed indicates over 220mph in most of those turns and dives.

The first 30 secs are smooth and the last few secs are too when not flown aggressively.

Again nice bonus and looks great well done all at 1c Team and thanks again for a long awaited video :)

Edit.

You can see the low level flight buffeting in similar cloud conditions in this vid, look at the pilots shoulders and canopy release handle, now imagine what the buffeting would be like if he pulled the same moves as in the SoW video clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRjR99lR_7c

[Flanker35M]

S!

Nice video indeed, shows some of the effects etc. That shaking is maybe a bit overdone IMO from what I have been in prop planes (military and civilian). As mentioned before the shaking is rough near the ground and near certain terrain areas. But nevertheless, great show! And I am sure things are not final in this video so still WIP ;) (waiting for the purist bandwagon to jump in ;) )

[Abbeville-Boy]

not really ..... if the ship is not buffetting why would the pilots head (your body/neck acts as a damper ;) ) ..... I have run into all sorts of low altitude turbulence ..... and it never does to a plane/glider what it does in IL2 or that vid ...... as RAF Winger confirmed there is nothing close to that kind of amplitude or violence.

The comment about dropping a wing or a short 'bump' are much more accurate.

:grin::grin::grin: raf74 winger only confirmed because he is you and you are him ;):rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Chivas]

not really ..... if the ship is not buffetting why would the pilots head (your body/neck acts as a damper ;) ) ..... I have run into all sorts of low altitude turbulence ..... and it never does to a plane/glider what it does in IL2 or that vid ...... as RAF Winger confirmed there is nothing close to that kind of amplitude or violence.

The comment about dropping a wing or a short 'bump' are much more accurate.

It only appears that the ship is not buffetting because the camera is mounted solidly to the airframe, so you won't see the cockpit framing bounce from that perspective. Take note of the pilots head bobbing around, from this point of view the cockpit framing would be moving relative to the terrain. I have no idea how much it would bounce, the last time I was in a dual seat CF104 Starfighter 40 years ago, I was just trying to keep my lunch down. ;)

[Abbeville-Boy]

best update that we have had great job!!! :)

[Insuber]

Nice and promising video. Clouds are gorgeous, and they account for 50% of the immersion imho. The dynamic shadows add realism to the beautiful cockpit. The whole sequence gives an overall impression of "being there", immersion looks promising. Water cannot be commented, too distant, but the white breakers are fine.
It seems that the antialiasing is not yet in, looking at the canopy frame.

All in all: I believe that SoW will be a masterpiece, a milestone in the sector.

Luthier and crew, keep up the good work, and stop your bad habits, like sleeping at night and not working during weekends!

Bye,
insuber

[Baron]

Please.

Maby "experts" could do a advanced aerobatics session in +200Mph amongst clouds and then come back complaining about exessive bufferting, jeeze, some of u people just have to complain no matter what!?

Unbeliveble.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Not being a "jeez expert", but done some 1.6M flying at 13km and 1090km/h at 600m ;D :D

[Baron]

S!

Not being a "jeez expert", but done some 1.6M flying at 13km and 1090km/h at 600m ;D :D


And iv done 850Km/h at 24K, so whats your point ;)


Im pretty sure there isnt a singel person in theese boards that have done what is shown in that Spit vid.


100% sure infact.



My point is: why not enjoy the FIRST SoW in flight video EVER, i mean what the hell is the problem?? (Not asking u in perticullar)


I for one enjoyed the hell out of it and i feel for thoose who cant.

[zapatista]

isnt the shaking in oleg's clip only when the plane is near stall speed ? looking at the rpm meter the power setting is very low. depending on airflow and turbulence it could be shaking that much ?

[FAE_Cazador]

Great video !! The best update we ever had !!

One question for Mr. Luthier, the pilot: could you post the specs of the computer you were using to fly? The video plays very smooth, no FPS shown.

Keep the good work up, 1C Guys, we are your followers !! :shock::shock::shock:

[AdMan]

What ????? ............ Protos said cockpit was washed out ...... hmmm = wtf does Pro know ........
Oleg and Luthier that is a 'realistic' pit ... how about making it look like that (at least colors) and forget about 'weathering cockpits'

mmmm...yes, the trademark spitfire green and black interior paint has undoubtedly been compromised in favor of a flaky, muted paint job that for all intents and purposes makes the cockpit gunmetal. It looks good on screen but I cant help but to harken back to a certain WoP thread in which similar "cinematic effects" had a good 50% of this board stark raving mad.

unless the colors are washed out simply from capture and compression, but it doesn't appear that is the case.

[Sutts]

Really enjoyed the video....fantastic work guys. Thanks for keeping us updated. Little things like this from time to time make all the difference.:grin:

This project has got to be THE most complex piece of PC gaming software to date. I'm pretty sure no other development studio would lavish such care and attention to detail and realism as Oleg and his team have.

I really want to see 1C make a decent profit from this venture and go on to make more great sims in future. Developing something like this over so many years is a huge financial burden. We've all seen how the smaller (better) software houses can get into trouble and are taken over by the big players. Then everything goes down hill. Look what happened to Falcon.

To the 1C team: many of us devoted flight sim fans would happily pay for additional content released shortly after the main title. Just little things like an additional navigation aid or more complex cockpit controls for a particular aircraft may not take as long to develop as a major update but will get many of us pretty excited and at the same time give us a chance to support 1C and it's future developments. I realise you need to keep the price of the main title competitive but to me it just doesn't seem adequate reward for all the effort you guys have expended on this.

Thanks again for all your efforts...without 1C the future of WWII flight sims would indeed be bleak. Please think about ways the community can help fund future develpments of this title through more regular purchases. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has spent far far more on flight gear than on the actual software title. It seems wrong really.

Dave

[Galagonya]

Those complaining about the washed out cockpit and lack of contrast between green and black coloring, pls check one of the earlier update screenshots at Foo.bar's site.

http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/grab0100.jpg

You can see that in this vid you simply don't see those parts were this contrast is clearly visible. I think the weathering is realistic for a plane spending even just months in combat situation, many hours under sun, etc. I definitely would not expect a look what you get when taking a picture with flash inside a pristine restored plane.

This gonna be an awesome sim. Excellent job.

[Bakelit]

Lovely eye opening video. Thanks.

[virre89]

Awsome video lutiher and screens.
Great works guys love it all the way, and if you tend to leak more videos please do so with the sound :D:D i can't wait to hear the engine roar as well , anyway Good luck this project looks great.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Baron, not an e-peen contest here, just expressing my opinion on the shake ;) And no-one needs to fly a Spitfire or Bf109 to achieve same results, a plane is a plane. Sure weight and speed plays a role, but I think you know what I mean. I got your point and enjoyed the video to the full, finally some moving gfx from SoW. It is just that so much was "camera based" in IL2 and was plaing wrong, like distorted POV within less than 1m etc. Camera is not human eye combined with brains that "fix" the view etc. So I really hope SoW has learned from this and does not make "one eye open 50mm lens thing" again and again ;)

So to please you all and brown nosey, with extreme sarcasm..Yeah oh I came squirted my pants ;) :D In reality: damn nice video. Happy?

[Insuber]

Luthier,

In the video I can't see the propeller, is it a WIP issue or just the resolution of the movie?

Bye,
Insuber

[KG26_Alpha]

Luthier,

In the video I can't see the propeller, is it a WIP issue or just the resolution of the movie?

Bye,
Insuber


You don't really see the prop in real life, only on film video etc.

[sport02]

great video with natural lighting , it's just a beautiful video 720p and should be yet better in game of course !!!

[ChrisDNT]

Nice video, but the instrument panel should look darker and less used : such aircrafts were at that time new.

[Insuber]

You don't really see the prop in real life, only on film video etc.

Don't know mate ... when I flew in turboprop commercial planes, the propeller was visible. And in small general aviation planes too, if I remember well. And at Duxford last summer too. And IL2 shows the propeller in flight as well.

Luthier ?

[KG26_Alpha]

I meant around 10ft or less behind it in the pit you are aware of it but don't notice it if you know what I mean:)

Its probably the poor resolution in the Spit vid.

[Insuber]

I meant around 10ft or less behind it in the pit you are aware of it but don't notice it if you know what I mean:)

Its probably the poor resolution in the Spit vid.

Understood :D

Ins

[Insuber]

I don't know if it's the final version, but in this case the radio room looks flat, the textures must be improved IMHO. Look at the struts on the right for instance.

Ins

[Letum]

I have just come from the Silent Hunter 5 forums.
It is all doom and gloom there. Most people are very unhappy about the
information and screenshots released.
It is very refreshing to see that over here SoW is not disappointing anyone
and continues to exceed expectations so well. Top job 1C!

[Foo'bar]

I meant around 10ft or less behind it in the pit you are aware of it but don't notice it if you know what I mean:)

Its probably the poor resolution in the Spit vid.

Or it's just because the model doesn't have a propellor yet? Remember when Oleg stated about the Ju 87 pictures that spinning propellors don't look good enough for showing in videos so far. Think simple, guys.
Why does the plane buffeting so much inflight? Because the programmers wanted it to do so at the moment, perhaps to demonstrate that buffeting is working well. It isn't yet a alpha version, so calm down. We shouldn't read too much into it before anybody official tells us why it is like it is.

[mazex]

Hello everyone,

We're moving offices, so our FTP site is going to be offline for a while as we relocate our servers. It came as a bit of a surprise for us. All older screenshots will be offline for a while. We apologize.

Here are some new shots for today, showing:

1. BR-20M radio room
2. BR-20M bombardier's position
3. Lorenz approach aid with fancy hut (fully operational)
4. More details of our tanker

We hope you like this week's update!

TFTU! Relocation as a surprise - that normally does not sound good - or is it to a larger office?

[Baron]

S!

Baron, not an e-peen contest here, just expressing my opinion on the shake ;) And no-one needs to fly a Spitfire or Bf109 to achieve same results, a plane is a plane. Sure weight and speed plays a role, but I think you know what I mean. I got your point and enjoyed the video to the full, finally some moving gfx from SoW. It is just that so much was "camera based" in IL2 and was plaing wrong, like distorted POV within less than 1m etc. Camera is not human eye combined with brains that "fix" the view etc. So I really hope SoW has learned from this and does not make "one eye open 50mm lens thing" again and again ;)

So to please you all and brown nosey, with extreme sarcasm..Yeah oh I came squirted my pants ;) :D In reality: damn nice video. Happy?


:)

Dont get me wrong, i relize "critizism" is essential to get the best game possible.

I just think there is a place and time for everything and this threadh is the place for oooooh and ahhhs only :) (kidding)

Finally seeing vids is a major leap towards getting this game up and running.


Its getting closer, fast. ;)

[Tigertooo]

i knew it would be great, i know it will be great, it is great already
All my support goes to the whole team: Thanks

[13th Hsqn Protos]

:grin::grin::grin: raf74 winger only confirmed because he is you and you are him ;):rolleyes::rolleyes:


Ask a mod to confirm ips noob ..... I don't alias ..... ever.

[DB605]

Fantastic video! Headshaking, reflections, shadows and all looks very good. How about similar video from Messerschmitt cockpit next? :)

[kammo]

Very impressive work SoW team!!!

[von_Rodg]

Awesome video. It must be apparent to everyone who watches this clip that SOW is going to be a masterpiece.

Especially liked the dynamic shadows within the cockpit, the pilot's head inertia movement within the cockpit, the clouds, and the whitecaps on ocean below.

I think Oleg/1C have captured the sea extremely well - the defined waves around the suns reflection, blending with less defined blue and white caps at other angles is cunningly done - and the blend is nicely maintained durnig the change of altitude/dive at the end of the video.

Can't wait for more

Of course, compromises must always be made in producing a workable 3d environment that can be reproduced on a home PC with decent frame rates and which reproduces the sensation of 'being there' with the simple tools of a computer screen and speakers etc. I think the SOW compromises appear extremely well tuned and difficult to detect.

Thank you thank you thank you team!

For the armchair critics I have no sympathy.

Von_Rodg

[luthier]

TFTU! Relocation as a surprise - that normally does not sound good - or is it to a larger office?

1C is a huge company, our servers are maintained by a different department within it. The entire 1C Games team, hundreds of people, are moving to a different location piecemeal. So it's all very structured and well though out, it's just I'm not on top of it as much as I should be personally.


Also, I'm very glad to see most of you guys like the Spitfire video. It was actually a real 100% honest leak that we didn't expect. Both me and Oleg felt that it was still not polished enough to be released, and in any case I would have wanted to splice it up with some outside views, fly a little better, etc.

Now I guess we have to do videos more often, because a handful of screenshots just won't be the same anymore...

[zaelu]

I saw the little movie and I would like to say this:

1. The movie was posted maybe as a response to the comments of some that were not impressed anymore by the still updates etc. So if those comments were not posted... maybe this video wasn't posted.
2. I am not particularly impressed by the movie... sorry. Is not something I didn't see before. I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..you know. Also I think we saw them before in the Hurri right? I knew the level of detail of the Spit pit.
3. The shaking... is imho a fake try to express the tremor/shake the plane has in real life but is placed (like in many many other games) where it is suppose not to exist - in the eyes. As Protos said, the neck and head acts as dampers and I add that the eyes have "steady cam" tech in the muscles that operates them and are surrounded by fat and are full of "gelly" fluid that do the same... they absorb vibrations. On top of that comes the big "computer" on the back side of them... the brain that not only post process the image to cut out the undesired and hindering things but when the "conscience" analyze the reality through the see sense is taking "shaking" into account only to acknowledge the existence of those undesired and maybe worrying natural factors.
For me that is like the fake "bass" from small earplugs for audio players... you can swear it sounds with plenty of realistic bass but that's till you fell the real bass from some powerful speakers.
What's more funny, is that is obvious is just a cool "realistic" effect made by the devs, cause the gunsight reflex circle is not shaking almost at all... cause they know you couldn't aim if "the dance" would be on everything :) . And in this way looks even more silly. I would preffer removing it for good and just put a plugin for those buttshakers in the game market.
4. I would like to see the medium and atmospherics of SoW... I know I will have to wait more but this is what I want to see... No... I am not impressed of those clouds as they look just like IL-2 clouds just a bit longer... Is the same "synthetisation" of clouds that looks technically close to reality but very unrealistic in the end as a feel. Like the sounds in Il-2... kind of. The water reflection... ok... nice effect but water is still close to IL-2 one just 2-3 visual things added but, no real waves... no etc. If is not close to the one in SH4-5 is not counting as "Wow!". The ground is visible a bit in that movie and is just a place holder... so it is better not to be counted.

Sorry if I sound negativistic but, I believe the team doesn't need now a pleased crowd that goes "uh!-oh!" at anything the put out on the updates. They need feedback and if we the fans are not "harsh" a bit and "demanding" the real unseen crowd that will buy the game will do it after release by not buying it. Which will be bad.

Basically, besides the level of details that are very high in some places (poligon counts etc) the SoW wip updates still looks visually under that WoP game. No... the simulation can not count now, as is not depicted in the screenshots too much.
I sure hope that when all parts of the game will come together the game will shine but, the current state of updates just show be that there is still a lot of work to be done and the team is at it.

So... keep it up team!

[luthier]

I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..

What on EARTH are you talking about?

[airmalik]

I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..you know. Also I think we saw them before in the Hurri right? I knew the level of detail of the Spit pit.

huh? don't know what you're on about mate.

I would preffer removing it for good and just put a plugin for those buttshakers in the game market.

that would be nice! I'd love to FEEL the pre-stall buffets, turbulence and hits.

cheers

[airmalik]

Now I guess we have to do videos more often, because a handful of screenshots just won't be the same anymore...

yeah, I don't think that should be a problem with us :grin:

[Viking]

Easy on the videos Luthier!
Any more realistic and I will need a pukebag, its like a rolercoaster you know.

Regards

Viking

[HFC_Dolphin]

We shouldn't be negative after seen this (DX9 , right Luthier?) video.
With such a pre-beta video, I'm not afraid at all for the final product.

And yes, Luthier we need more videos, so we can comment on them and show any objections we have (always constructively and precisely: not just comments like "it sux"). Though this can happen during beta-phase, but you know your time schedule and the way you're gonna work better than us ;)

Anyway, the thing is that this video is not IL-2. It is definitely something much better. And this is a good step towards getting a great sim!

[335th_GRSwaty]

Now I guess we have to do videos more often, because a handful of screenshots just won't be the same anymore...

yes please!!!:D

[Insuber]

Hehe Zaelu your points from 2 to 4 are easily explained by the point 1... :D:D:D


I saw the little movie and I would like to say this:

1. The movie was posted maybe as a response to the comments of some that were not impressed anymore by the still updates etc. So if those comments were not posted... maybe this video wasn't posted.
2. I am not particularly impressed by the movie... sorry. Is not something I didn't see before. I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..you know. Also I think we saw them before in the Hurri right? I knew the level of detail of the Spit pit.
3. The shaking... is imho a fake try to express the tremor/shake the plane has in real life but is placed (like in many many other games) where it is suppose not to exist - in the eyes. As Protos said, the neck and head acts as dampers and I add that the eyes have "steady cam" tech in the muscles that operates them and are surrounded by fat and are full of "gelly" fluid that do the same... they absorb vibrations. On top of that comes the big "computer" on the back side of them... the brain that not only post process the image to cut out the undesired and hindering things but when the "conscience" analyze the reality through the see sense is taking "shaking" into account only to acknowledge the existence of those undesired and maybe worrying natural factors.
For me that is like the fake "bass" from small earplugs for audio players... you can swear it sounds with plenty of realistic bass but that's till you fell the real bass from some powerful speakers.
What's more funny, is that is obvious is just a cool "realistic" effect made by the devs, cause the gunsight reflex circle is not shaking almost at all... cause they know you couldn't aim if "the dance" would be on everything :) . And in this way looks even more silly. I would preffer removing it for good and just put a plugin for those buttshakers in the game market.
4. I would like to see the medium and atmospherics of SoW... I know I will have to wait more but this is what I want to see... No... I am not impressed of those clouds as they look just like IL-2 clouds just a bit longer... Is the same "synthetisation" of clouds that looks technically close to reality but very unrealistic in the end as a feel. Like the sounds in Il-2... kind of. The water reflection... ok... nice effect but water is still close to IL-2 one just 2-3 visual things added but, no real waves... no etc. If is not close to the one in SH4-5 is not counting as "Wow!". The ground is visible a bit in that movie and is just a place holder... so it is better not to be counted.

Sorry if I sound negativistic but, I believe the team doesn't need now a pleased crowd that goes "uh!-oh!" at anything the put out on the updates. They need feedback and if we the fans are not "harsh" a bit and "demanding" the real unseen crowd that will buy the game will do it after release by not buying it. Which will be bad.

Basically, besides the level of details that are very high in some places (poligon counts etc) the SoW wip updates still looks visually under that WoP game. No... the simulation can not count now, as is not depicted in the screenshots too much.
I sure hope that when all parts of the game will come together the game will shine but, the current state of updates just show be that there is still a lot of work to be done and the team is at it.

So... keep it up team!

[virre89]

I saw the little movie and I would like to say this:

1. The movie was posted maybe as a response to the comments of some that were not impressed anymore by the still updates etc. So if those comments were not posted... maybe this video wasn't posted.
2. I am not particularly impressed by the movie... sorry. Is not something I didn't see before. I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..you know. Also I think we saw them before in the Hurri right? I knew the level of detail of the Spit pit.
3. The shaking... is imho a fake try to express the tremor/shake the plane has in real life but is placed (like in many many other games) where it is suppose not to exist - in the eyes. As Protos said, the neck and head acts as dampers and I add that the eyes have "steady cam" tech in the muscles that operates them and are surrounded by fat and are full of "gelly" fluid that do the same... they absorb vibrations. On top of that comes the big "computer" on the back side of them... the brain that not only post process the image to cut out the undesired and hindering things but when the "conscience" analyze the reality through the see sense is taking "shaking" into account only to acknowledge the existence of those undesired and maybe worrying natural factors.
For me that is like the fake "bass" from small earplugs for audio players... you can swear it sounds with plenty of realistic bass but that's till you fell the real bass from some powerful speakers.
What's more funny, is that is obvious is just a cool "realistic" effect made by the devs, cause the gunsight reflex circle is not shaking almost at all... cause they know you couldn't aim if "the dance" would be on everything :) . And in this way looks even more silly. I would preffer removing it for good and just put a plugin for those buttshakers in the game market.
4. I would like to see the medium and atmospherics of SoW... I know I will have to wait more but this is what I want to see... No... I am not impressed of those clouds as they look just like IL-2 clouds just a bit longer... Is the same "synthetisation" of clouds that looks technically close to reality but very unrealistic in the end as a feel. Like the sounds in Il-2... kind of. The water reflection... ok... nice effect but water is still close to IL-2 one just 2-3 visual things added but, no real waves... no etc. If is not close to the one in SH4-5 is not counting as "Wow!". The ground is visible a bit in that movie and is just a place holder... so it is better not to be counted.

Sorry if I sound negativistic but, I believe the team doesn't need now a pleased crowd that goes "uh!-oh!" at anything the put out on the updates. They need feedback and if we the fans are not "harsh" a bit and "demanding" the real unseen crowd that will buy the game will do it after release by not buying it. Which will be bad.

Basically, besides the level of details that are very high in some places (poligon counts etc) the SoW wip updates still looks visually under that WoP game. No... the simulation can not count now, as is not depicted in the screenshots too much.
I sure hope that when all parts of the game will come together the game will shine but, the current state of updates just show be that there is still a lot of work to be done and the team is at it.

So... keep it up team!

Gimme a break , one of the most disrespectful posts i've read in quite a while. You assume to f*king much tech out of a video you know nothing about.. this will be the real deal compared to the arcade shooters out there, sorry you can't have everything.. but its still a game in some sort.. otherwise just go drive a real damn spitfire or build your own game..water / clouds look like IL2? ye right and i am Arnold Schwarzenegger..

Keep it up Oleg , the team and let us hear the engine roars next time ;)

[diveplane]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!

Book in for an eye test.

insults dont help either. best watch what you type.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

You guys only talk about remove it, don't put it and etc.

Think big, this is a free world - make it switcheable, then everyone's happy.

And, guys, for heaven's sake, stop thinking you know more about flying than the devs do. I don't remember where I saw it, but if I remember correctly, Oleg was (is?) a pilot himself, so I'm pretty sure he knows how does it work.

The Storm of War x Wings of Prey debate is pointless. Two different approaches, with different public as well. While one tries to make graphics look only realistic, without making it too fancy, the other introduce a rather darker atmosphere, that gives a sort of dramatic feeling to it, and calls for more action. Would be interest to have both as an option, though.

However, I'm not sure if it fits Maddox Games' general idea for Storm of War to have unrealistic eye-candies just because they give a nice movie-style feeling to the whole thing.

I won't go any further because this is a thread dedicated to the updates, and not whining and another WoP debate which will end with WoP guys defending it blindly and the rest flaming it completely.

Also, people like to point to the devs that 2+2=4 and etc. without even reading the Q&A on the requests thread. Most things people complain and ask about have been explained more than a hundred times by the poor developers. They know how it should look, trust me.

Got a bit immersed in the rant and forgot to comment on the update!

Ilya, the screenshots are amazing. Nice look from the BR.20 cockpit. The Lorenz looks very nice (curiously, it's different than Team Daidalos one for Il-2). The detail on ships sometimes make me wonder if this is a new Silent Hunter or a flight simulator. Truly amazing. The water looks very nice. Now where's my life-jacket?

Now Ilya, let's admit it: MuxaHuk totally stole your thunder this time. And, hell, he should do it more often!

Unpolished or anything you want to call it, that's still a piece of art! Very pleasant sensation of being in a smooth level flight... and then jumping to a hardcore roller-coaster. Really, really nice. I can't get tired of seeing that Spitfire cockpit. Absolutely perfect.

And yes, unfortunately (:mrgreen:), you'll probably have to feed us with some moving action more often

[zaelu]

What on EARTH are you talking about?
Oh... my exprimation was a bit out of... focus :D.

I was saying that it was not a surprise that the shadows were moving. Not that I didn't see them moving. :lol:

Like the movie said to us: "Hey look... moving shadows!"
And I go: "Oh nice... but I didn't think they were just painted on in the screenshots"

Sorry again for the confusing exprimation.

@virre89

I am not disrespectful at all... you are just too touchy. I don't know if you are part of the Maddox team but I'd expect one of the team members to be not too pleased with my comments and I wish my words will be taken just as a critique from a singular point of view... my own. If it helps pointing some areas of things that should be in focus for development updates, improvements or final release... I'd be happy it helped. But if you are not part of the team... then your reaction is just "fanboyism" and I think is very dangerous for a team to listen only praises.

[Romanator21]

Quite frankly, I don't see a problem with the water in this game. From the air it looks just fine. Again, there is an issue of visual range. In SH the water is nice, but I noticed in their videos that the waves start to repeat and form a "quilt" pattern after less than a mile. This is fine if the camera is at the surface, which is 99% of the time in SH.

A flight sim has to render water waves which should not have a visible pattern for maybe 10 miles at least. So, in the same way that ground textures will not appear in a flight sim the way they do in a FPS, so too will the water.

The visual representation of the shaking is maybe much. As has been said, there is a dampening effect because of our biology. It should be felt, not seen, but that is impossible to do for a computer game.

My suggestion, would be to have shaking of loose items (like the canopy pull handle) while dampening the camera vibrations.

Save for the vibrations, I would say the movement of the head was very realistic. There's obviously compression into the seat from G's and it goes side to side while making hard banks. Very nice.

However, I noticed a bug with your gunsight. It seems to show a hard horizon and brown color above.

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae188/zakkandrachoff/spitfireavi.jpg

I would imagine that because of this the gunsight is more than just a texture. So, will it be refracting light?

The clouds look good. I would like to know of there will be a greater variety of shapes besides the "cotton balls" that show up after a rainy day. Will there be changes in thickness (up and down)? Will there be a possibility of seeing a towering cumulonimbus maturing into the anvil shape? Will there be multiple layers? Will high altitude clouds also change, or are they bound with the map as in Il-2?

[=815=TooCooL]

Gimme a break , one of the most disrespectful posts i've read in quite a while. You assume to f*king much tech out of a video you know nothing about.. this will be the real deal compared to the arcade shooters out there, sorry you can't have everything.. but its still a game in some sort.. otherwise just go drive a real damn spitfire or build your own game..water / clouds look like IL2? ye right and i am Arnold Schwarzenegger..

Keep it up Oleg , the team and let us hear the engine roars next time ;)

Oh no Here comes a fanboy.
I second Zealu's points.
Seeing that video, i know it is beta, but anyone but fanboy can see and speak what doesn't look right.
Self shadow is gorgeous and poly count is impressive but cloud and water is that of il-2.
How about coop with gaijin entertainment guys.(kidding, that would be impossible)
Their flight game is no where close to il-2 in sim aspect but did outstanding job in graphic, atmosphere, and clouds. (Behold overcast clouds in wop)
I know you're busy, but I appreciate you taking the time to play WoP and find what is missing in il-2 and BOB beta video.
Writing it on phone so plz bear my spells.

[Avimimus]

What on EARTH are you talking about?

Not really a Dr. Who fan, but this is a really well written episode that should explain... I think...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xasBdFCI6xM&feature=related

[mazex]

1C is a huge company, our servers are maintained by a different department within it. The entire 1C Games team, hundreds of people, are moving to a different location piecemeal. So it's all very structured and well though out, it's just I'm not on top of it as much as I should be personally.


Also, I'm very glad to see most of you guys like the Spitfire video. It was actually a real 100% honest leak that we didn't expect. Both me and Oleg felt that it was still not polished enough to be released, and in any case I would have wanted to splice it up with some outside views, fly a little better, etc.

Now I guess we have to do videos more often, because a handful of screenshots just won't be the same anymore...

He he, someone will have a tough monday at work ;) It felt a bit weird getting a video that we have all longed for on page two of an update thread ;)

[major_setback]

[QUOTE=Romanator21;138939]

....

The visual representation of the shaking is maybe much. As has been said, there is a dampening effect because of our biology. It should be felt, not seen, but that is impossible to do for a computer game. ....


....However, I noticed a bug with your gunsight. It seems to show a hard horizon and brown color above.

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae188/zakkandrachoff/spitfireavi.jpg

QUOTE]

I think Ilya maybe forgot that Spitfires don't have combat flaps, and they got stuck..it looks like the sort of buffetting you get with (stuck) full flaps to me.

The gunsight is slightly shaded/tinted I think, or polarized maybe (I know some aircraft in WWII had polarized gunsights) - so the sky can look darker through them, and reflections are cut from the shine on the sea.

Great video 1C!!!!! We want more :-)

[kendo65]

I don't know if it's the final version, but in this case the radio room looks flat, the textures must be improved IMHO. Look at the struts on the right for instance.

Ins

I think the apparent 'flatness' is due mainly to the low light levels - ie it's dark. If you look at the inner rings of the various dials you can clearly see shadows on the right hand side.

[Sutts]

I saw the little movie and I would like to say this:

1. The movie was posted maybe as a response to the comments of some that were not impressed anymore by the still updates etc. So if those comments were not posted... maybe this video wasn't posted.
2. I am not particularly impressed by the movie... sorry. Is not something I didn't see before. I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..you know. Also I think we saw them before in the Hurri right? I knew the level of detail of the Spit pit.
3. The shaking... is imho a fake try to express the tremor/shake the plane has in real life but is placed (like in many many other games) where it is suppose not to exist - in the eyes. As Protos said, the neck and head acts as dampers and I add that the eyes have "steady cam" tech in the muscles that operates them and are surrounded by fat and are full of "gelly" fluid that do the same... they absorb vibrations. On top of that comes the big "computer" on the back side of them... the brain that not only post process the image to cut out the undesired and hindering things but when the "conscience" analyze the reality through the see sense is taking "shaking" into account only to acknowledge the existence of those undesired and maybe worrying natural factors.
For me that is like the fake "bass" from small earplugs for audio players... you can swear it sounds with plenty of realistic bass but that's till you fell the real bass from some powerful speakers.
What's more funny, is that is obvious is just a cool "realistic" effect made by the devs, cause the gunsight reflex circle is not shaking almost at all... cause they know you couldn't aim if "the dance" would be on everything :) . And in this way looks even more silly. I would preffer removing it for good and just put a plugin for those buttshakers in the game market.
4. I would like to see the medium and atmospherics of SoW... I know I will have to wait more but this is what I want to see... No... I am not impressed of those clouds as they look just like IL-2 clouds just a bit longer... Is the same "synthetisation" of clouds that looks technically close to reality but very unrealistic in the end as a feel. Like the sounds in Il-2... kind of. The water reflection... ok... nice effect but water is still close to IL-2 one just 2-3 visual things added but, no real waves... no etc. If is not close to the one in SH4-5 is not counting as "Wow!". The ground is visible a bit in that movie and is just a place holder... so it is better not to be counted.

Sorry if I sound negativistic but, I believe the team doesn't need now a pleased crowd that goes "uh!-oh!" at anything the put out on the updates. They need feedback and if we the fans are not "harsh" a bit and "demanding" the real unseen crowd that will buy the game will do it after release by not buying it. Which will be bad.

Basically, besides the level of details that are very high in some places (poligon counts etc) the SoW wip updates still looks visually under that WoP game. No... the simulation can not count now, as is not depicted in the screenshots too much.
I sure hope that when all parts of the game will come together the game will shine but, the current state of updates just show be that there is still a lot of work to be done and the team is at it.

So... keep it up team!


You really shouldn't act like some kind of expert when you obviously don't know your subject matter. The reflector sight optics are designed to stay put while your head shakes and moves about. Watch this demonstration on youtube if you need proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXsVg8F91t8

I think there are more constructive ways of making your point without resorting to that kind of blunt attack packed full of negativity. That video was a materpiece and it isn't even finished yet. There's just no pleasing some folk.:roll:

And no, I'm no fanboy...just someone who believes in giving credit where credit is due.

[Freycinet]

Yeah, Zaelu definitely got his looong analysis of a reflector gunsight dead wrong. And the thing about the shadows, but he went back on that, it seems. But he's not short on self-confidence when it comes to "giving the team advice" so that's excellent! :-)

[Waaagh]

I saw the little movie and I would like to say this:

1. The movie was posted maybe as a response to the comments of some that were not impressed anymore by the still updates etc. So if those comments were not posted... maybe this video wasn't posted.
2. I am not particularly impressed by the movie... sorry. Is not something I didn't see before. I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..you know. Also I think we saw them before in the Hurri right? I knew the level of detail of the Spit pit.
3. The shaking... is imho a fake try to express the tremor/shake the plane has in real life but is placed (like in many many other games) where it is suppose not to exist - in the eyes. As Protos said, the neck and head acts as dampers and I add that the eyes have "steady cam" tech in the muscles that operates them and are surrounded by fat and are full of "gelly" fluid that do the same... they absorb vibrations. On top of that comes the big "computer" on the back side of them... the brain that not only post process the image to cut out the undesired and hindering things but when the "conscience" analyze the reality through the see sense is taking "shaking" into account only to acknowledge the existence of those undesired and maybe worrying natural factors.
For me that is like the fake "bass" from small earplugs for audio players... you can swear it sounds with plenty of realistic bass but that's till you fell the real bass from some powerful speakers.
What's more funny, is that is obvious is just a cool "realistic" effect made by the devs, cause the gunsight reflex circle is not shaking almost at all... cause they know you couldn't aim if "the dance" would be on everything :) . And in this way looks even more silly. I would preffer removing it for good and just put a plugin for those buttshakers in the game market.
4. I would like to see the medium and atmospherics of SoW... I know I will have to wait more but this is what I want to see... No... I am not impressed of those clouds as they look just like IL-2 clouds just a bit longer... Is the same "synthetisation" of clouds that looks technically close to reality but very unrealistic in the end as a feel. Like the sounds in Il-2... kind of. The water reflection... ok... nice effect but water is still close to IL-2 one just 2-3 visual things added but, no real waves... no etc. If is not close to the one in SH4-5 is not counting as "Wow!". The ground is visible a bit in that movie and is just a place holder... so it is better not to be counted.

Sorry if I sound negativistic but, I believe the team doesn't need now a pleased crowd that goes "uh!-oh!" at anything the put out on the updates. They need feedback and if we the fans are not "harsh" a bit and "demanding" the real unseen crowd that will buy the game will do it after release by not buying it. Which will be bad.

Basically, besides the level of details that are very high in some places (poligon counts etc) the SoW wip updates still looks visually under that WoP game. No... the simulation can not count now, as is not depicted in the screenshots too much.
I sure hope that when all parts of the game will come together the game will shine but, the current state of updates just show be that there is still a lot of work to be done and the team is at it.

So... keep it up team!

This one is kind of silly so I felt the need to crawl out of hiding and respond.

I don´t know which video you watched, but the one I saw -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQbCIT-aMnY&feature=player_embedded <- has moving dynamic shadows.

For the ´pit shaking: that´s overthinking it. I hear the same argument from people who want to get rid of the headbob in Arma2, and it´s silly. It´s an atmospheric that´s supposed to convey the fact that you´re flying a 1200 hp monster of a plane, and do that so impressively that you forget that you´re actually sitting nice and comfy in front of a computer.
The only argument I´d count is that people can get sick from it, so having this scaleable would be sensible. Otherwise, this state of the art, and I can appreciate the effort put into this.

Other people have mentioned the collimator sight before, so I won´t go into that. It´s been a functional feature in IL-2 too, so if one has played that they should be familiar with it.

For the clouds, I suggest you go back to the video and watch the Video in HD. At around 0:20 you can see the clouds coming into view on the left: notice the soft gradient of colour, as well as how the light plays around the edges. Also, dynamic shadows cast by the clouds onto the sea surface.
At 1:11 you can briefly see the brightly lit trim around the clouds edges where the sun his shining down between them. The glare on the sea surface is also (it seems) shaped by the clouds above it.

All in all, I´m really impressed by this video, despite the lack of sound and its shortness. Can´t wait to see how everything looks when it has come together: 2009 was a year of gaming disappointments for me, so SoW can only make it better. 8)

Cheers

[Romanator21]

<<The gunsight is slightly shaded/tinted I think, or polarized maybe (I know some aircraft in WWII had polarized gunsights) - so the sky can look darker through them, and reflections are cut from the shine on the sea.>>

Maybe, but the effect flickers on and off, which says to me it's a bug. It's also interesting that clouds disappear under the gun-sight.

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae325/rboiko1/Storm%20of%20War%20Battle%20of%20Britain/firefox2010-01-2315-01-51-00.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae325/rboiko1/Storm%20of%20War%20Battle%20of%20Britain/firefox2010-01-2315-01-52-00.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae325/rboiko1/Storm%20of%20War%20Battle%20of%20Britain/firefox2010-01-2315-01-53-00.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae325/rboiko1/Storm%20of%20War%20Battle%20of%20Britain/firefox2010-01-2315-01-54-01.jpg

[Romanator21]

And here is the flicker:

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae325/rboiko1/Storm%20of%20War%20Battle%20of%20Britain/firefox2010-01-2315-03-14-11.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae325/rboiko1/Storm%20of%20War%20Battle%20of%20Britain/firefox2010-01-2315-03-15-11.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae325/rboiko1/Storm%20of%20War%20Battle%20of%20Britain/firefox2010-01-2315-03-16-11.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae325/rboiko1/Storm%20of%20War%20Battle%20of%20Britain/firefox2010-01-2315-03-17-11.jpg

[76.IAP-Blackbird]

Comon guys what `s the prob??? It is still in development when it`s relesed and it has some bugs start to complain not now, or are you complaining about your unborn child "I don`t like his feet, we will make a new one ..."

[blades96]

Thanks for the beautiful video, my excitement levels have now reached critical.

[Dano]

Also, I'm very glad to see most of you guys like the Spitfire video. It was actually a real 100% honest leak that we didn't expect. Both me and Oleg felt that it was still not polished enough to be released, and in any case I would have wanted to splice it up with some outside views, fly a little better, etc.

I do hope Muxahuk isn't going to be in trouble on Monday morning, he's now a favourite amongst fans ;)

Now I guess we have to do videos more often, because a handful of screenshots just won't be the same anymore...

Indeed :D

[virre89]

Oh no Here comes a fanboy.
I second Zealu's points.
Seeing that video, i know it is beta, but anyone but fanboy can see and speak what doesn't look right.
Self shadow is gorgeous and poly count is impressive but cloud and water is that of il-2.
How about coop with gaijin entertainment guys.(kidding, that would be impossible)
Their flight game is no where close to il-2 in sim aspect but did outstanding job in graphic, atmosphere, and clouds. (Behold overcast clouds in wop)
I know you're busy, but I appreciate you taking the time to play WoP and find what is missing in il-2 and BOB beta video.
Writing it on phone so plz bear my spells.

Funny you say that, maybe check my history of posts and you'll find out i am quite the opposite. Stop acting like a tech expert instead and get a life. Just because i dont nitpick a video doesn't mean i don't care for details or realism or i wouldn't even be here in the first place. Besides, try show some constructive criticism when you've a case instead.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

People need to calm down...... constructive criticism is good. Being a fanbois contributes nothing to the game. Zaelu expressed points made by many (plus English is not his native language)

The shaking is too much .... at least 3 real pilots have pointed that out. Lets fix and move on.

For the rest .... yeah nice vid .... but not mind blowing .... even Luthier said that .... chill out .... LOOOOOONG way to go still.

[Chivas]

People need to calm down...... .... chill out .... LOOOOOONG way to go still.

This made me smile coming from you. ;)

[13th Hsqn Protos]

Cheap shot all you like...... I know I have brought about positive change in this sim. ;)

[Skoshi Tiger]

Hey everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I have my pilots licences (though it has been a few years since I flew last) and in my opinion the head shake is probably under modeled if anything.

Heres a small video from a head cam in a light plane doing aerobatics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKMIP2GuP7Q

[TheGrunch]

Cheap shot all you like...... I know I have brought about positive change in this sim. ;)

:lol:

Oh, sorry, you weren't joking? What positive change is that, then?

Anyway, awesome update and video...still a bit rough around the edges, don't think anyone could deny that.

I think that zaelu made some good points, don't think the language barrier helps, everyone jumping at him because they thought he said that there were no dynamic shadows, when all he meant was that already knew they were in the game so he didn't find it as surprising and jaw-dropping as a lot of people seem to.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

Hey everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I have my pilots licences (though it has been a few years since I flew last) and in my opinion the head shake is probably under modeled if anything.

Opinion has nothing to do with facts,

ultralight weight under 1000lbs
Spitfire weight 6500lbs

In your mind/opinion they are the same/comparable ..... physics says different. Lets let even talk about structural rigidity....
Headshake is wrong in that vid .... not even close to realistic ...... defending it merely shows the ignorance of posters.

[proton45]

Cheap shot all you like...... I know I have brought about positive change in this sim. ;)


But not as much as me... ;)

[Skoshi Tiger]

Opinion has nothing to do with facts,

ultralight weight under 1000lbs
Spitfire weight 6500lbs


Protos, It has nothing to do with the mass of the aircraft. The head shake modeled simuates the movement of the pilots head reacting to the movements of the aircraft.

And except within the members of this forum there is a limits to the mass of a human head and in general it is several orders of magnitude smaller than the weight of the aircraft be it 1000lbs or 6500lbs.

Opinion has nothing to do with facts,

In your mind/opinion they are the same/comparable ..... physics says different. Lets let even talk about structural rigidity....



Yes Protos, I believe the same laws of physics should be used to simulate the movement of a pilots head in what ever aircraft they are flying. Please check with you high school physics teacher and get back to me on that one.


Headshake is wrong in that vid .... not even close to realistic ......


That is an opinion of yours I disagree with it it is my right :)



defending it merely shows the ignorance of posters.

I could not have put it better myself ;)

[13th Hsqn Protos]

But not as much as me... ;)

maybe .... but I doubt it ;)

@skoshi ...... if you think a WWII fighter shakes like an ultralight ....... no helping you and your understanding of flight. Time to brush up on your 'licenses' ......

[proton45]

Proton, It has nothing to do with the mass of the aircraft.



Yes Proton, I believe the same laws of physics should be used to simulate the movement of a pilots head in w





He is "Protos"... I'm "Proton". :)

[Skoshi Tiger]

maybe .... but I doubt it ;)

@skoshi ...... if you think a WWII fighter shakes like an ultralight ....... no helping you and your understanding of flight. Time to brush up on your 'licenses' ......

Protos, I'm not sure what its like in your part of the world, but to fly an aircraft in Australia you need your Pilots Licence (Private in my case), Your Flight Radio Operator Licence plus your type endorsements and ratings. So the plural is correct. In the Queens English, it's spelt 'Licence'. 'License' has a different meaning. Look it up.

I do not need any help with my understanding of flight thank you. For my use it is sufficient. (Though I am always willing listen to those with superior understanding than myself)

I do suggest you do some brushing up on your physics and try to understand what they are trying to model. Your talk of vibration is not related to the effect of being simulated (as far as I can tell)

Do 1200HP V12 aero engine vibrate? Yes they do. The Merlin has a reputation of being a snarling beast of an engine. (no standing 50p coins of an ildling Merlin!) I'm sure it's german counterparts had similar characteristics

[Skoshi Tiger]

He is "Protos"... I'm "Proton". :)

My Bad, Sorry!

[zaelu]

:lol:
I think that zaelu made some good points, don't think the language barrier helps, everyone jumping at him because they thought he said that there were no dynamic shadows, when all he meant was that already knew they were in the game so he didn't find it as surprising and jaw-dropping as a lot of people seem to.

Exactly, if I was to speak my words (even with my bad accent :) ) and not write them everyone would had understood from my "tone" what I was meaning.

For people that say that I don't know what the reflex visor work... well is quite possible, I don't work in that area but I knew what is doing as I saw it in many movies on the net how the cross-hair stays fixed while camera is moving and I also play DCS Black Shark that has a better representation of the reflex gun-sight in its HUD and has native 6DoF so you can see it working.

@Skoshi Tiger and others that find the movie from SoW representing good or insufficient head shake I want to tell you this.

An honest question and not an "implying" one: Did you ever flew in a plane having attached to your head a camera? Did you watch the video afterwards and have a feeling that you didn't actually "experience" that tremor and shaking?

What I am saying is the shaking in that movie is just for "cinematic" effect and is not depicting reality... you know... simulation. If the aircraft is shaking violently in bad weather we notice it... we even "see" it if we want to check it out but, when we work in those conditions our eyes, brain and mind filter it out. When you add it as a "special effect" you cannot filter it out and it becomes a hinder to the working and is not a good simulation to aggravate the bad environment.

Is like when you go to a 3D movie and you see objects in 3D but then the "cineast" wanted to make an emphasis on some plan of attention and he made one object in middle plan of the image clear and one object closer to the viewer in blur like out of focus. Now, as long as you go with story you will not notice it... you will even more dive into the action but, if you observe the out of focus object and look at it the spell is broken, your mind will try to focus it and then observe it can't do it and then will understand is just a trick.

The same is with this shaking effect, as long as you go with the cinematic effect is nice... but as soon as you try to actually make a dogfight in that shaking plane you will see it's unrealistic and hindering and you will see that in effect you are still, the gun-sight is still in respect to your movements but the cockpit is wobbling around like crazy... the spell is broken.

I sure hope this effect can be toggled or adjustable in final release so everyone would be happy... I will use it if I make a movie though :) .

I had filmed a bit with a helmet mounted camera and I noticed what I was saying above many times. The movie is shaking like crazy but I cannot remember all that movement. The movement comes from vibrations but also from attention shifting which cannot be (yet) represented in games, maybe some neat depth of field trick that shifts via input from your eyes will do it in 20 years from now. In the little movie bellow you will see that while I ride the bike the camera tremors like hell (I don't recall that tremor) and while flying the motodelta the movie is pretty still, just movements from attention shifting and little actual shaking of the wing that do appear like in the movies, you are still and the plane itself moves but, are not how they are perceived in real time.

Here is the little movie. I was trying to keep my head very still and also the motodelta is a great steady-cam platform but, it still moves differently that I perceived it. And the movie has the worst shaking parts cut out for obvious reasons :) .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yNafzMSqj8

Please note that I don't say I am some sort of an expert giving lessons just making some observations of my own... if they are right maybe they help. And sorry if my post is too long.

[ZaltysZ]

I have my pilots licences (though it has been a few years since I flew last) and in my opinion the head shake is probably under modeled if anything.

Modeling of head shake is harder to do than it may look. You can't simply shake camera in the same way as real head is shaken, because then you will get a feeling that it shakes too much. It will be so, because in reality eyes can compensate for the movement of head, but in game they can't as we don't move of course and see only shaking picture. The simple example is the book reading in the car. Despite you can still read it while car is moving, you won't be able to read it in the video, if it has been filmed by high speed high resolution camera attached to your head.

Head shake is almost always lowered down in sims for simulation of eyes compensation and sake of playability. I would say, we should not be concerned about it too much until we get a chance to test it in game. Videos do not depict such things well.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Great video Zaelu That would have been fun to make.

No I haven't flown with a camera mounted on my head, but I do understand that the brain is good at filtering out the distractions like head shake, so that in most circumstances you do not notice it.

Until you try to do something like line up the sights of your fighter and that when it does become very important and noticable. ( Post and ring sights were worse but the reflector sights did have some leeway)

One of the concerns I have is that gamers will go into simulated aircombat and perform all sorts of combat manuvers taking shots at the edge of the envelope when in real life they would not be able to keep their sights on-target. The head shake is one of those methods to simulate the difficulties involved.

And in my opinion I don't think they did too bad a job in the posted video.

Cheers!
My wife has just told me I'm spending too long on the computer :(

[HFC_Dolphin]

I'm not an expert in real flying, but I think that the shaking we saw in the video was caused because of change of flaps and hard stick movements· maybe in connection with some strong wind.

Anyway, Luthier can explain better as he was the one flying in this video.
Nevertheless, it's pretty obvious that everything is still under heavy tweaking and that SoW team will need our opinion in such matters mostly during beta period. (That's why, after all, this was not an official video release.)

[HFC_Dolphin]

By the way, please keep in mind that especially about WW2 planes' behaviour, Oleg has excellent feedback by a real pilot who's actually flying these birds.
I know the man and I'm sure we can rest assured that he knows what to tell to Oleg and Team.
I'm also sure that Oleg and Team can implement all good feedback in the game. They can do it better than anyone else in the game industry.

Let's wait a bit for official video releases.

[Sutts]

Exactly, if I was to speak my words (even with my bad accent :) ) and not write them everyone would had understood from my "tone" what I was meaning.

For people that say that I don't know what the reflex visor work... well is quite possible, I don't work in that area but I knew what is doing as I saw it in many movies on the net how the cross-hair stays fixed while camera is moving and I also play DCS Black Shark that has a better representation of the reflex gun-sight in its HUD and has native 6DoF so you can see it working.

@Skoshi Tiger and others that find the movie from SoW representing good or insufficient head shake I want to tell you this.

An honest question and not an "implying" one: Did you ever flew in a plane having attached to your head a camera? Did you watch the video afterwards and have a feeling that you didn't actually "experience" that tremor and shaking?

What I am saying is the shaking in that movie is just for "cinematic" effect and is not depicting reality... you know... simulation. If the aircraft is shaking violently in bad weather we notice it... we even "see" it if we want to check it out but, when we work in those conditions our eyes, brain and mind filter it out. When you add it as a "special effect" you cannot filter it out and it becomes a hinder to the working and is not a good simulation to aggravate the bad environment.

Is like when you go to a 3D movie and you see objects in 3D but then the "cineast" wanted to make an emphasis on some plan of attention and he made one object in middle plan of the image clear and one object closer to the viewer in blur like out of focus. Now, as long as you go with story you will not notice it... you will even more dive into the action but, if you observe the out of focus object and look at it the spell is broken, your mind will try to focus it and then observe it can't do it and then will understand is just a trick.

The same is with this shaking effect, as long as you go with the cinematic effect is nice... but as soon as you try to actually make a dogfight in that shaking plane you will see it's unrealistic and hindering and you will see that in effect you are still, the gun-sight is still in respect to your movements but the cockpit is wobbling around like crazy... the spell is broken.

I sure hope this effect can be toggled or adjustable in final release so everyone would be happy... I will use it if I make a movie though :) .

I had filmed a bit with a helmet mounted camera and I noticed what I was saying above many times. The movie is shaking like crazy but I cannot remember all that movement. The movement comes from vibrations but also from attention shifting which cannot be (yet) represented in games, maybe some neat depth of field trick that shifts via input from your eyes will do it in 20 years from now. In the little movie bellow you will see that while I ride the bike the camera tremors like hell (I don't recall that tremor) and while flying the motodelta the movie is pretty still, just movements from attention shifting and little actual shaking of the wing that do appear like in the movies, you are still and the plane itself moves but, are not how they are perceived in real time.

Here is the little movie. I was trying to keep my head very still and also the motodelta is a great steady-cam platform but, it still moves differently that I perceived it. And the movie has the worst shaking parts cut out for obvious reasons :) .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yNafzMSqj8

Please note that I don't say I am some sort of an expert giving lessons just making some observations of my own... if they are right maybe they help. And sorry if my post is too long.


Now that was much more constructive feedback zaelu. I can understand your point of view now.:)

[Abbeville-Boy]

Cheap shot all you like...... I know I have brought about positive change in this sim. ;)

you need to pm oleg and tell him of your vast piloting history. Then he will add you to his other pilots who advise him. Then you can argue with them and show them your data from years of research on shaking of hand made paper planes. :evil:

[Richie]

Even Tree sounded a little excited :)

[Dano]

People need to calm down...... constructive criticism is good. Being a fanbois contributes nothing to the game. Zaelu expressed points made by many (plus English is not his native language)

The shaking is too much .... at least 3 real pilots have pointed that out. Lets fix and move on.

For the rest .... yeah nice vid .... but not mind blowing .... even Luthier said that .... chill out .... LOOOOOONG way to go still.

I think half the problem here is the fact that your responses come over as being arrogant and rude, whether you mean them to or not is another matter.

[MikkOwl]

That video looks great! (Spitfire in the Clouds). Despite the nasty artifacting from youtube compression, it looks absolutely teriffic.

Compare it to the british map of Wings of Prey for example. Look near the end where it manuvers a bit and pulls up towards the water where there's tons of sun reflections done very nicely in the water. It's bright, but it's not exagerrated as the Wings of Prey style was.

The shadows in the cockpit look very sharp and appear to be complete and covering nicely.

The instruments moving looks very nice as well. Note the unstable nature of them when throwing the plane around (I recommend reading how mechanical measurement instruments from the era worked, and still do today to some extent. Fascinatingly simple yet effective).

It all looks very, very real to me. Maybe I should look into getting a second 9800GTX+ to be able to run it (SLI.. poor man's upgrade).

I also think the colour shade of the water as well as sky in particular looks superbly convincing. Water has some foaming on the top of waves (I know 'perfect' water in IL-2 has much of this as well) which gives some references to gauge your speed/angle compared to more flat lifeless waters.

EDIT: Comment on the G-forces and head movement - for being a fixed view mode, I can't imagine what could be done to make it better. I'm not sure in real life how much you can keep your head centered behind the gunsight display, but I doubt you can if you are doing sudden violent moves. The delay/lag simulates a neck pretty well.

[Insuber]

I'm not an expert in real flying, but I think that the shaking we saw in the video was caused because of change of flaps and hard stick movements· maybe in connection with some strong wind.

Anyway, Luthier can explain better as he was the one flying in this video.
Nevertheless, it's pretty obvious that everything is still under heavy tweaking and that SoW team will need our opinion in such matters mostly during beta period. (That's why, after all, this was not an official video release.)

+1!

And add to that the engine vibrations at some point. So, exaggerated or not, I'd like to think that we have something nice and original modeled there (turbulence under clouds, engine vibrations, high G stutter), requiring tweaking and fine tuning maybe. Don't look at the finger, look at the moon instead ... :).

Regards,
Insuber

[Tbag]

Protos, It has nothing to do with the mass of the aircraft. The head shake modeled simuates the movement of the pilots head reacting to the movements of the aircraft.

And the mass of the aircraft has a lot to do with the aircrafts movements. The heavier an aircraft, the more energy needed to accelerate it. And I'm perfectly sure that the SoW team is more than aware of all this :)

[dduff442]

I don't know about anyone else, but I've already entered drool mode at the prospect of using the night-landing and precision navigation devices.

If SoW comes out in the autumn, I should be fully qualified in flying 1940 bombers by 2012. If that isn't a useful life-skill, what is?

[Matze81]

Hi, how are you guys?

Obviously I'm new here, although I've been reading along in this forum already for quite a while now.

Concerning the Spitfire video, I'm really glad that it got leaked, (Don't be to hard on the poor guy, who uploaded it!!!) because, I really wasn't sure anymore whether Storm of War would be as awesome as I would like it to be, especially talking about graphics!

Don't get me wrong, the 3D-Models look amazing, but I had no idea, how the whole thing would look and feel, when everything comes together.

That's why I love the video so much! Dynamic shadowing, nice reflections, beautiful clouds. Even though we don't see no landtextures or an external view of the airplane, I think the game looks really good already! (not just compared to Il-2 but also WoP!)

It would be superkind of you guys, if you could upload a similar video featuring a Luftwaffe fighter. The 109 or the Fw-190 maybe?!

Anyways, thanks for the regular updates! Keep 'em coming!

[Freycinet]

The movement comes from vibrations but also from attention shifting which cannot be (yet) represented in games, maybe some neat depth of field trick that shifts via input from your eyes will do it in 20 years from now.

Rise of Flight already has something similar. When you move your viewpoint away from the cockpit, the cockpit is blurred, when you look into the pit the surroundings are blurred. Just a simple effect made on the basis of the direction of your view.

[Tree_UK]

Even Tree sounded a little excited :)

I am excited, and always have been. I upset people because i ask questions, but I have never said SOW is vapourware or that it wont be good.

[Modding_Monkey]

Oleg Maddox's game called Storm of War: Battle of Britain is vapourware and it wont be good.

Found it. Just add some words and take some out. :D

[Tree_UK]

Found it. Just add some words and take some out. :D

lol, yeah right, nice editing job. :grin::grin:

[Modding_Monkey]

lol, yeah right, nice editing job. :grin::grin:


I just had too. :D

[philip.ed]

Found it. Just add some words and take some out. :D

:D haha LOL

If we can expect more videos, I want to see some of the games effects. I want to see close ups of clouds, engine and damage smoke etc. From this I can see instantly that the plane and cockpit models will be out of this world ;)

[Flanker35M]

S!

Looking for new ideas for your excellent work Philip? ;)

[airmalik]

Hey everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I have my pilots licences (though it has been a few years since I flew last) and in my opinion the head shake is probably under modeled if anything.

Heres a small video from a head cam in a light plane doing aerobatics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKMIP2GuP7Q

Hand held/head mounted cameras always exaggerate the amount of shaking. I've tried simple mounts on the wing strut and landing gear and it's always a struggle to get steady footage. Hand held cameras aren't much better unless the cameraman is very good at damping the little bumps felt while flying but not necessary 'seen'. The lens in this video isn't very wide angle which helps. Just yesterday I was out flying (ultralight) with a friend who was shooting video from the right seat and while editing that video I had to junk pretty much every clip where he tried to zoom even a little. Even at the widest angle the video was shaky at times. The amount of shake in the video was NOTHING like I experienced while flying. So I don't think that camera footage can be used to determine the amount of shake we should see in flight sims.

[Richie]

Tree I have a quote on my WordPad. Something about eating shorts if this comes out this year? :)

[jippy13]

Thank you Oleg fot that great video !!

It gives me hope that Bob will be as magnificent as his successor.

Long live Bob

I m looking forward to another new video.

[Tree_UK]

Tree I have a quote on my WordPad. Something about eating shorts if this comes out this year? :)

I think you will find that was a quote i made to my mate Feurfalke, I said I would eat his shorts if SOW came out in 2009, my prediction was March 2010 (which I was flamed for I may add). Feurfalke generously offered to donate a pair of his 'smalls' on the proviso that I filmed the event for youtube. Fortunatley, Oleg decided to hold back the release after it was revealed that Feurfalke only had two pair of pants to his name, one pair having a print of Oleg's face on the back.
Obviously my prediction was still way off, but i may add that I still think we will be very lucky to see the game this year although I truly hope I am wrong, there is clearly a lot of work to do, but the video although leaked was a massive boost. :grin::grin:

[proton45]

I am excited, and always have been. I upset people because i ask questions, but I have never said SOW is vapourware or that it wont be good.


You upset people because you play "games" (here on the forum) when your bored...

You upset people because, not everyone has the same sense of humor as you do...

Some people have trouble listening to your "serious observations" because they just spent 5 minutes reading a thread of you "taking the piss" out of a topic and/or a forum member (did i use that English colloquial saying correct?) (did i spell colloquial correct_lol)...

[MikkOwl]

The human head, spine and soft parts makes for a pretty good damper of vibrations and acceleration. There's a certain delay involved, and a lot of damping. I've even heard from someone with some credentials that there's a formula for calculating it.

The worst has to be unanticipated motion. You (subconciously) apply this and that much pull on this and that neck muscle, in order to keep the head straight and level for the current condition. Then an unexpected change, maybe the plane moves down 5cm abruptly due to thatairconditionIonlyknowthenameinswedish, which is like falling on your ass 5cm. That will make you pitch your head up at first and then down as you suddenly come to a stop.

But man, that video looked so awesome. So it's not sanctioned? But it looked so good, it could only do good for hyping the game and goodwill. I love it. Bf 110 C-4, Ju 88 and Ju 87 will be supremely immersively fun!

---

Will you people please take your off-topic arguing about who said what about release dates, eating shorts, how one acts bla bla somewhere else? I don't come into these topics wanting to filter through those things. Just try to keep to the topic of the latest media rather than who said what about vaporvare, attitudes blah blah.

[Baron]

I do hope Muxahuk isn't going to be in trouble on Monday morning, he's now a favourite amongst fans ;)



Indeed :D


Think more of us need to sign of on this post :)


Btw, where do i send recomendations for the emplyee of the month award?


P.S. Luthier i can understand why u and Oleg wanted to tweak a video some more before showing, some people on theese boards are so unforgiving its not even funny anymore.

Keep up the good work and keep em comming. (Dont forget to look left and right next time u take the Bf109 up for a spin ;) )

[Tree_UK]

You upset people because you play "games" (here on the forum) when your bored...

You upset people because, not everyone has the same sense of humor as you do...

Some people have trouble listening to your "serious observations" because they just spent 5 minutes reading a thread of you "taking the piss" out of a topic and/or a forum member (did i use that English colloquial saying correct?) (did i spell colloquial correct_lol)...

....but mainly I just upset you. :grin::grin:

[Modding_Monkey]

leave him alone. :roll:
I know he has bad sense of humor, is a downer ect.

But he is....
uuh, uh, uh. from England?

lol

[philip.ed]

S!

Looking for new ideas for your excellent work Philip? ;)


Haha :D yes ;)

[Flagrum_3]

It's been a long wait for BoB, but I gotta tell you I'm impressed by the video even though it's still in the "works" as they say.It looks awesome....My hopes are up again that Oleg and crew will do their best to deliver to us a World-class leading Combat Flight Simulator. :grin:

As for the argument over the buffeting, I have been lucky enough (a couple of years ago) to fly a world class aerobatic plane, the German build Extra300L to be exact...this plane is a genuine Dogfighter with unlimited maneuvers, top speed 407 kph, roll rate of 340 degrees a second....anyways as I said I was lucky enough to fly one for almost an hour and I'll tell you at high speed, doing barrel rolls, himmermans etc; There is definately buffeting, but it is pronounced only at certain times.Now how and when buffeting would show up on WW2 fighters such as the Spit would only be a guess on my part.I guess talking to an actual WW2 pilot would be the best source to answer that question.

Anyways Oleg keep up the great work, although I am dying in anticipation I have my money ready for the release whenever you feel it's ready. :) ...but please more videos!!


_3

[hiro]

AWESOME



It's an early video but I'm excited!!!

HOwever the shaking felt off because it felt it it was on the verge of stalling. All the time. :)


Nonetheless, we have to thank Oleg n Co for releasing it and being so sneaky about it!



But I totally agree with Z, in that you don't notice the head shaking . . . it happens but your perception clouds it out . . .

Or your mind tunes it out to save itself from TMI . . .

and so if the pilots don't perceive that shaking, BOB SOW should cancel it out.

Leave shaking to tell me if the planes going to stall.

In IL-2 I always look for the shake when I'm pushing it (the plane) to the edge).

[SlipBall]

The shake in an aircraft on certain day's and conditions is not limited to your neck and head moving around a bit. I had many time's when there was quite alot of bouncing, jolting, and in general being thrown around a bit. Very simalar to a boat ride in a way. Then again on certain days and the time of the day is important, you can have nothing at all. Its just all related to the current condition's in the atmosphere. Anyway in game I'm sure that the weather and propwash will bounce us a bit...I think that I will enjoy that

[Skoshi Tiger]

And the mass of the aircraft has a lot to do with the aircrafts movements. The heavier an aircraft, the more energy needed to accelerate it. And I'm perfectly sure that the SoW team is more than aware of all this :)

Yes, but because the size mass of the aircraft is large and the mass of the pilots head is small, even slight movements of the the aircraft will have a large effect on the pilots head.

You are 100% right, Oleg and the development team have spent more time working on this than us all combined and they know the direction they want to take!


Hand held/head mounted cameras always exaggerate the amount of shaking. I've tried simple mounts on the wing strut and landing gear and it's always a struggle to get steady footage. Hand held cameras aren't much better unless the cameraman is very good at damping the little bumps felt while flying but not necessary 'seen'. The lens in this video isn't very wide angle which helps. Just yesterday I was out flying (ultralight) with a friend who was shooting video from the right seat and while editing that video I had to junk pretty much every clip where he tried to zoom even a little. Even at the widest angle the video was shaky at times. The amount of shake in the video was NOTHING like I experienced while flying. So I don't think that camera footage can be used to determine the amount of shake we should see in flight sims.


I must say I'm a bit jelous and would love to see some of your footage. Would the exaggeration your talking about be due to the focal length setting of your video's lens? If you zoom in any movements shakes etcf would become more pronounced, just as if you used a fish eye lens you find them reduced. (Need a photography expert here to help!)

As stated before (and after) by a few people our brains tend to make us ignore the bad effect, my point is that when we try to concentrate on the gun sights this would be one of the times when it would be noticable. You would need to keep your head in a relatively fixed position (within the viewing angle of the refector sight) and thats when you'ld notice the movement.

My link to the video was not an ideal choice, but it did show the effect I was talking about.

What would they say if you did an experiment and put a post and ring sight on your ultra-light and ..... Hmmm! On second thoughts it might raise a few eye-brows :0


The human head, spine and soft parts makes for a pretty good damper of vibrations and acceleration. There's a certain delay involved, and a lot of damping. I've even heard from someone with some credentials that there's a formula for calculating it.


100% agree with you BUT 'pritty good' does not equate to a 'SteadyCam' experience.

Pass on the details of the research tho the development team. As with the ricochet information they were looking for, I'm sure they are trying to make the sim as realistic as posible. Within the bounds of Artistic License (been itching to use it in context- sorry) and the huge number of other priorities I'm sure it could be useful to them.

Really looking forward to the next update!
Cheers to all :)

[Avimimus]

It's also important to realise that the eye, muscular system have some ability to compensate for vibration and the human mind has an ability to interpret movement. The subjective impression of shaking may be much less for a human being in the actual plane than for a human watching a recording made with a camera on that plane.

So, it would be nice if this were a customisable feature.

[SlipBall]

I think that any shaking in a aircraft you are keenly aware of just because you are off the ground and out of your environment. In my case being shaken always triggered fear and rapid mental assessment.

[proton45]

....but mainly I just upset you. :grin::grin:


Ummm, I don't know about that...I seem to recall that you lost your cool quite a few times in the past. I don't remember ever resorting to "name calling", like you have... ;)

[Skoshi Tiger]

I think that any shaking in a aircraft you are keenly aware of just because you are off the ground and out of your environment. In my case being shaken always triggered fear and rapid mental assessment.

Lacking both the intellegence and imagination required to experience that emotion, I must conceed that it was often a topic discussed by my instructors (many of whom went on to find ground based employment) and passengers (many of whom went on to get their pilots licences - so that they would NEVER have to fly with me again!!!) at the end of each flight. I just put it down as the 'Exhilaration of Flight'!

Just joking of course ;) Then again two of my brothers and at least one of my friends did go on to get their pilots licences after flying with me just once ..... Hmmm!

[AdMan]

Those complaining about the washed out cockpit and lack of contrast between green and black coloring, pls check one of the earlier update screenshots at Foo.bar's site.

http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/grab0100.jpg

You can see that in this vid you simply don't see those parts were this contrast is clearly visible. I think the weathering is realistic for a plane spending even just months in combat situation, many hours under sun, etc. I definitely would not expect a look what you get when taking a picture with flash inside a pristine restored plane.

This gonna be an awesome sim. Excellent job.

colors are a little more pronounced in the screenies but overall it's still a little too gray, the panel not quite black enough and green not quite green enough.

color might still have fine tuning to undergo and maybe in a less weathered cockpit it will be look better. I myself, am still holding out for progressively weathered cockpits, although it will not be I can't stress enough how over the top bad ass it would be to have this at some point. Even if there were only 10 or so progressively weathered skins that changed after a certain number of flight hours, battles seen, etc. With only 10 stages of damage it would probably be best if they changed in between missions, but it would still be cool and if were animated in real time like the exteriors it would be unbelievably awesome.

and I mean awesome

unbelievably A W E S O M E

is someone taking notes here?

[nearmiss]

I respect all the graphic wish lists, but to be forthright. I'd prefer more tools that let us work with the game play, i.e, programmable mission buiilder, probablistic programming tools for AI performance, weather programming, AI that can't see through clouds, sensible physics, etc.

The stuff that really makes the sim viable is the gameplay. Sure all the graphics is a plus, but delaying the SOW to satisfy all the graphic wishlists will put us even further release of SOW.

We are still all doing this sim with 10 year old graphics and enjoying it. There are plenty of non-graphic things that would give this old hound dog alot of punch.

TD is planning a multi-object editor ability in FMB, AI performance is being tweaked. These kinds of improvements are improvements, graphic improvements are great... but you get used to them pretty darn quick.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Nearmiss..100% agree with you. Graphics are just part of the game. The rest is what makes it good like you mentioned. I prefer playability over eyecandy :)

[ZaltysZ]

As stated before (and after) by a few people our brains tend to make us ignore the bad effect, my point is that when we try to concentrate on the gun sights this would be one of the times when it would be noticable. You would need to keep your head in a relatively fixed position (within the viewing angle of the refector sight) and thats when you'ld notice the movement.

It is not that hard with reflector sight, but with iron sight it is. Rise of Flight combined with TrackIR gives good feeling how hard it is to align sights for precise shots while maneuvering and constantly looking around. However, this is true only if you don't use any "magic" button to center the camera. :)

Eyes (or brains) don't filter the movements in sense of image processing. Instead, they are stabilized on the point where you look. This is possible due to vestibular system, which allows us to feel rotation and linear acceleration. This system allows us to feel when we fall, are pushed, turned and etc. (it even helps us to walk in complete darkness). Also, it sends signals to eyes, so that eyes will compensate for head movement and turn towards the point we want to look at.

Magnitude of effect depends on individual, but in case of vertigo (i.e. too much spinning) stabilization of eyes might become less effective or completely off. So, after multiple barrel rolls you may temporary think that plane shakes much more than before. :)

[wannabetheace]

Thanks for Friday updates and bonus vid :)
I knew it is SoW even before the confirmation post:cool:

Keep up the good work!!!!

[Qpassa]

Please dont put more vids. I feel embarrased when I see how I get wet :mrgreen:

[FAE_Cazador]

I respect all the graphic wish lists, but to be forthright. I'd prefer more tools that let us work with the game play, i.e, programmable mission buiilder, probablistic programming tools for AI performance, weather programming, AI that can't see through clouds, sensible physics, etc.

The stuff that really makes the sim viable is the gameplay. Sure all the graphics is a plus, but delaying the SOW to satisfy all the graphic wishlists will put us even further release of SOW.

We are still all doing this sim with 10 year old graphics and enjoying it. There are plenty of non-graphic things that would give this old hound dog alot of punch.

TD is planning a multi-object editor ability in FMB, AI performance is being tweaked. These kinds of improvements are improvements, graphic improvements are great... but you get used to them pretty darn quick.

+1 !

[Oleg Maddox]

S!

Nearmiss..100% agree with you. Graphics are just part of the game. The rest is what makes it good like you mentioned. I prefer playability over eyecandy :)

For the real success on the market should be both in modern time.
And if we are speaking about fligth sims - we should put even more than two these terms.

[KG26_Alpha]

For the real success on the market should be both in modern time.
And if we are speaking about fligth sims - we should put even more than two these terms.

Like buildings and objects at 100% of their size relative to the aircraft :)

[furbs]

lets hope MuxaHuk hasnt been gulaged :) for posting that fantastic vid and we get to see a few more...because just look how that vid flew across the net and its affect on eveyone here.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

For the real success on the market should be both in modern time.
And if we are speaking about fligth sims - we should put even more than two these terms.


You can add

1. Proper INGAME server browser/update system/chat/friends/Squadron tools to the list
2. Guid based keys for anticheat systems.
3. Dedicated Linux based server files with built in GUI server controller so that price of hosting is not as ridiculous as today

Oleg, you have to really push these, this time around.

[ECV56_Lancelot]

1. Proper INGAME server browser/update system/chat/friends/Squadron tools to the list

Agree.


2. Guid based keys for anticheat systems.

In this case i don´t know what you are referring to. It would be nice if you explain a little more this because honestly i got curious.



3. Dedicated Linux based server files with built in GUI server controller so that price of hosting is not as ridiculous as today

Even if this is something i don´t use, i think its a great idea, because it will allow to squadron lower their expenses on hosting servers.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Thank you for the input Oleg, very much appreciated. Sure graphics are a selling factor, but when talking about Your & the team's sims people already know there is much more than just graphics ;) Graphics should not be the only point why people buy a sim, but how it perfroms, accuracy of modeling, mission environment(configuration & tools for making more), technical support, compatability issues etc. I am maybe "oldskool" here, but I do not mind lesser graphics at all. More a fan of balance between graphics and performance even my rig is frequently updated to meet today's requirements. Eagerly waiting for SoW, no doubt about that.:mrgreen:

[Snuff_Pidgeon]

For the real success on the market should be both in modern time.
And if we are speaking about fligth sims - we should put even more than two these terms.

Oleg your work so far is exellent!

[AdMan]

graphics push gameplay and vice-versa, that is the evolution of gaming. Like was said, in this age there is expected to be both and in-fact you can't have one without the other, it's much more than "eye candy", it's turning a simulation into an experience. I for one stopped playing Il2 about a year and a half ago, it's simply too dated now compared to the quality if game I'm used to playing, but I am also a retro gamer so one day years from now I will pick it up again for some nostalgia.

[Dano]

2. Guid based keys for anticheat systems.

How does that work?

[Matze81]

graphics push gameplay and vice-versa, that is the evolution of gaming. Like was said, in this age there is expected to be both and in-fact you can't have one without the other, it's much more than "eye candy", it's turning a simulation into an experience.

I agree 100%!

Up to date graphics are very important, cause that's the first thing that pulls the player into the world / scenario the game presents. Of course once your "there" the gameplay has to be just as good for the imersion to be complete.

[Jg2001_Rasputin]

For the `There is to much shaking guys`

In my experience, I flew with Ju 52 and an An 2, the shaking is just right, if not too less. As far as I remember the was a lot of movement of the plane due to the engine.
Here is a short video of me as a passenger in the An 2, during the Hahnweide 2009. I think you can clearly see how the plane is shaking on the ground and in the air, alltough the pilot didnt nearly fly manoeuvres like shown in the SOW video.

http://vimeo.com/6454534

[SlipBall]

Lacking both the intellegence and imagination required to experience that emotion, I must conceed that it was often a topic discussed by my instructors (many of whom went on to find ground based employment) and passengers (many of whom went on to get their pilots licences - so that they would NEVER have to fly with me again!!!) at the end of each flight. I just put it down as the 'Exhilaration of Flight'!

Just joking of course ;) Then again two of my brothers and at least one of my friends did go on to get their pilots licences after flying with me just once ..... Hmmm!


Ha ha, you must be fun up there...fear was too strong of a word to use, maybe "concerned" would fit better in my case. After all its a long way down, fast:grin:

[OSSI]

A slow flying plane shake more than high speed flying plane. Also the plane typ is a factor (heavy or light) e.t.c.

Video was great!! :)

[MikkOwl]

I would like to add a detail I noticed: in the spitfire video, one can see the SHADOWS of the BOLTS lining the inside of the canopy frame, being cast inside the cockpit. How hardcore is that? :) I feel the urge for SLI graphics cards more and more...

[Chivas]

I agree the gameplay has to be improved, but just because we are seeing some great graphics doesn't mean that gameplay has been abandoned. Unfortunately screenshots can't show gameplay. Personally graphics are very important to me, as no matter how good the gameplay is, I never get into it, if the graphics are an immersion killer.

[nearmiss]

For the real success on the market should be both in modern time.
And if we are speaking about fligth sims - we should put even more than two these terms.

Sounds to me like you know exactly what needs to be done for SOW.

[Mysticpuma]

From the brief video clip shown of the Spitfire, the lighting effects are outstanding as is the interior modeling.

Looking outside of the cockpit, the flare off the sea looks fantastic, as do the clouds in the distance.

Regarding the clouds and atmospheric effects, do you expect there to be columns of smoke rising from burning cities that reach and extend through cloud level?

Will it be possible to have smoke drifting over the landscape at ground level?

Lastly, can the weather effects simulate thick ground fog so that it is almost impossible to see the end of the runway?

Thanks, and really looking forward to this being released one day, cheers, MP.

[Desgobbi]

The shadow of the rudder of the boat is bit weird

I think it's great. "the Shadow"? Do you mean the underwater screw things of the boat? It looks nice.

[Romanator21]

The problem is not the shaking. It's the visual representation of shaking that we only feel with our bodies. Since it's a computer game, all our input is visual.

1) Keep the shaking as is to make up for the lack of tactile and inner-ear input.

2) Tone down the shaking to make the sim look visually accurate.

[Galagonya]

The problem is not the shaking. It's the visual representation of shaking that we only feel with our bodies. Since it's a computer game, all our input is visual.

1) Keep the shaking as is to make up for the lack of tactile and inner-ear input.

2) Tone down the shaking to make the sim look visually accurate.

Totally agree. I would go for option 2, since (although it might incorrect in strictly visual sense) this provides important information that a pilot would otherwise receive by feeling the physics. I think the present compromise (shaking visual and yet still focused view of the recticle) actually quite balanced and well thought.

[airmalik]

I must say I'm a bit jelous and would love to see some of your footage.

Please check your PM.

I went out flying again to see exactly how turbulence looks like from a light plane - hey anything for research :)

It's quite smooth flying in the winter so it took a while to find turbulent air. Wasn't too bumpy but I noticed that at times there was enough shaking to make reading the instrument panel difficult but at the same time if I looked outside, it wasn't difficult to focus on any particular spot.

Looking at the spitfire video again, it seems to be similar in the respect that the view outside isn't as bumpy as the interior. Of course that also has to do with the proximity of the cockpit to the pilot but I think it's closer to reality than I thought previously. I guess while flying I'm mostly looking out and don't notice the shaky interior except when I'm consciously trying to read the instruments.

cheers!

[Foo'bar]

I think it's great. "the Shadow"? Do you mean the underwater screw things of the boat? It looks nice.

I think he meant the steering wheel's shadow.

[Qpassa]

I hope that shaking will be included in an improved force feedback engine

[150GCT_Veltro]

For the real success on the market should be both in modern time.
And if we are speaking about fligth sims - we should put even more than two these terms.

Well said, 100% agree.

The first SoW video ir really outstanding! Bravo!

[SlipBall]

I hope that shaking will be included in an improved force feedback engine


You really don't feel much from the controls when its turbulent

[Qpassa]

In IL2 its enough how the turbulences feel with the G940

[KOM.Nausicaa]

I just hope despite the turbulence flame war, 1C will still post another video next time.

[KG26_Alpha]

I just hope despite the turbulence flame war, 1C will still post another video next time.

Yea and people wonder why OM is reluctant to post wip stuff :)

On a side note I wonder if there will be a demo disc release for SoW as there was with Il2 Shturmovik

[airmalik]

I just hope despite the turbulence flame war, 1C will still post another video next time.

It's an interesting topic for discussion and just because a lot of people are participation in it doesn't make it a flame war. It wouldn't be an interesting discussion group if everyone agreed with everything. I do agree discussions and critiques should be done in a civil manner and I think that's been (mostly) the case so far.

cheers

[KOM.Nausicaa]

You think so ?

[13th Hsqn Protos]

Do you really think Oleg comes here to hear how great you think he is ?

I mean really ???


He wants FEEDBACK. Good feedback .... even if sometimes he doesn't like it/ or in my case the person giving it.

[TheGrunch]

Oleg or Ilya, could you possibly tell us yet whether you have any inkling of the specifications for the engine regarding 3rd party 3D objects (polycounts, texture size, formats, etc.)? I imagine that would be useful information to bear in mind for a number of people. Will there be import/export tools released with the game or will that be postponed until a while afterwards? Will you provide a guide at some point for the guidelines to creating 3D objects or will you leave the process to trial and error like many game developers do? I realise these are questions that aren't particularly important at the moment, but I'm just curious to be honest, since this is your first foray into making an openly moddable game. :) I very much appreciated your earlier explanations about 3rd party content being outside the officially sanctioned "locked set" of objects and the ability of users to edit FMs etc. without compromising online play and was just wondering whether you'd care to expand upon them slightly with some ballpark figures.

[RAF74_Winger]

It appears that I have been misunderstood. Evidently my prose needs improvement.

I wrote:

you do get 'bumps' with turbulence and convective action, but they are of large amplitude

That is; the total movement is too small, I've occasionally bumped my head on the canopy due to not tightening the harness sufficiently.

and very low frequency

The shaking shown is too rapid, it should be spaced out more.

I also agree with some of the statements made here, for instance:

You really don't feel much from the controls when its turbulent

Very true, the most you will get from the stick is some pre-stall vibration and the tightening of the controls as speed increases. Turbulence is felt through your backside (or your head, in my case).

In regard to FFB I'd be more interested in the real characteristics of the aircraft, like the spitfire's reversal of stick force gradient as one approaches the stall, the heavy force needed on the rudder to keep the 109 in balance at cruise speed.

Have to reply to this though:

Im pretty sure there isnt a singel person in theese boards that have done what is shown in that Spit vid.

100% sure infact.


100% wrong as it happens, though I'll admit that I haven't done it in a Spitfire yet.

W.

[proton45]

For the `There is to much shaking guys`

In my experience, I flew with Ju 52 and an An 2, the shaking is just right, if not too less. As far as I remember the was a lot of movement of the plane due to the engine.
Here is a short video of me as a passenger in the An 2, during the Hahnweide 2009. I think you can clearly see how the plane is shaking on the ground and in the air, alltough the pilot didnt nearly fly manoeuvres like shown in the SOW video.

http://vimeo.com/6454534

The shaking I see in the video clip seem accurate, but only if you where holding the camera in your hand as you filmed. Usually the personal experience (and memories) of the cameraman is very different from what we later see on the film. In times of stress the mind & body compensate for things that might impede our performance. Human vision doesn't work the same as what we see on film...in real life our eyes dart back and forth, and we focus our attention on a small details (like a temp gauge), we blink and scan the horizon. The mind filters out distracting information as best it can.

Just as "IL2's" field of vision is an approximation of a humans "field of view", we need to approximately represent the shaking of the aeroplane and its occupant. When we drive the human eye darts back and forth focusing on many small details (all the time adjusting for changes in "depth of field" and posture), but the brain puts all this information together into a single big picture. The in-game image is equally rich in detail from the center of the screen to the edge...also the "depth of field" sharp from up-close to far away. The game represents the world in this way so that "we" as the player can immerse ourselves in the world of the game.

So the real question is NOT whether or not the shaking in the video clip is technically accurate, BUT the question is how do we want the shaking of airplane and pilot to be represented in the game...


p.s Its 4 AM here and I'm getting a bit blurry (lol)...I hope my ideas are easy to read.

Back in the old days their where many interesting discussions at the "ubi zoo" about the "field of view" and the "depth of field" issues. I assume that Oleg still has the same opinions. :)

[TheGrunch]

Human vision doesn't work the same as what we see on film...in real life our eyes dart back and forth, and we focus our attention on a small details (like a temp gauge), we blink and scan the horizon. The mind filters out distracting information as best it can.
Someone should maybe take one of these (http://littlegreatideas.com/steadycam/) up with them when they fly. :)

[ZaltysZ]

Someone should maybe take one of these (http://littlegreatideas.com/steadycam/) up with them when they fly. :)

That device helps only to decrease unintentional camera movements induced by operator. In other words it is for people with shaking hands and not for environments in which whole operator (or just camera) is shaken by some other external force.

[TheGrunch]

That device helps only to decrease unintentional camera movements induced by operator. In other words it is for people with shaking hands and not for environments in which whole operator (or just camera) is shaken by some other external force.
Hmmm, for some reason that very sensible observation escaped me when I posted that. :oops: Oh well, good website anyway.

[airmalik]

The shaking I see in the video clip seem accurate, but only if you where holding the camera in your hand as you filmed


p.s Its 4 AM here and I'm getting a bit blurry (lol)...I hope my ideas are easy to read.

Good post Proton.

[PilotError]

I thought I might add a comment or two about the shaking in the video which seems to be creating a bit of controversy.

I think both sides of the argument have valid points.

There is bound to be a lot of shaking and vibration in any warbird with those massive brutes of engines along with aerobatic maneuvers in turbulent air ( although sadly I've not been lucky enough to experience that for real ) .

On the other hand the human brain does an amazing job at filtering out and editing what we see from what our eyes actually see.

The point I noticed though, was that in the video even when there was quite a bit of shaking going on, the gunsight didn't seem to be shaking all that much. I reckon I could still have been able to line up the sight on a target even through all that buffeting . I'm not saying I would've been able to hit anything LOL, but the sight wasn't bouncing about that much that you couldn't look though it.
Run the video again but concentrate on the crosshairs to see what I mean. The sight does disappear a few times but that seems to be more like the pilots head moving due to pulling G's than due to shaking.

Another point is that right at the end of the video the engine rpm drops. Has the engine shut down ? Was a lot of the vibration coming from the ( rough running ? ) engine rather than turbulence ?

Just adding my tuppence worth.

[Richie]

You know that the cross hairs are a reflected image right? Here's a German Revi site

http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t91/waffe109/?action=view&current=JG4-Movie-Revi-Bf109.flv

[jippy13]

Hello Oleg and your team.

Today we are Friday..so I suppose we will get soon a new video :))

[AndyJWest]

Hello Oleg and your team.

Today we are Friday..so I suppose we will get soon a new video :))
Today we are still Thursday. I suppose you will soon get accurate calendar :))

I don't think there are any timezones that run at GMT - 20 or so, but if I'm wrong, I apologise...

[Qpassa]

Hello Oleg and your team.

Today we are Friday..so I suppose we will get soon a new video :))

Its Thursday
8:37 (GMT +1)

[KG26_Alpha]

Hello Oleg and your team.

Today we are Friday..so I suppose we will get soon a new video :))

Turn off your speed hack :)

[Matze81]

Come on guys! It was worth the shot! I can't wait either!!! :grin:

But seriously, I'm really curious what the update is going to be tomorrow. Assuming they keep up the weekly friday updates (Not tryin' to push the devs here!)