Just my thoghts on the latest Screens update +examples offuture hopes for SoW

[Mysticpuma]

The problem we have here, is that the reason we are all here is becuse Oleg created a great sim so many years ago.

What i want primarily from a sim is immersion. So, along with enemy AI that doesn't just spin into the ground and can see through clouds, I want advance damage modeling both visibly and also through the flight model so I know my aircraft is in trouble. I'd have 6-DoF but lastly the graphics need to make me believe I am in a virtual cockpit.

The comparison between Call of Duty and Modern Warfare is very representative of my expectations, and if I'm out of order, this is MHO.
So, visually I want the aircraft to have lots of detail, all of it with HDR lighting,an improved visual damage model so that if an aircraft loses part of a wing it has torn edge rather than a straight edge. I'd like to see wings explode off an aircraft if the ammo store is hit, but I'd also like to see wings not fall of an aircraft, but fold and stay attached, then flap as the aircraft hurtles down.

This is just subtle but immersive graphics that add to the realism of the situation you are in.

There are so many things that would be awesome to see, and maybe they are already there, but small changes like 54 v54 in QMB + the option to have close formation or Bader's 'Big Wing'!

I really want to see glass and metal have radiosity and caustics as-well as my vision too.

If I look into the cockpit my pupil will enlarge to let my light in. When I look back out again, I'd expect a slight over-brightness in my vision (caustics) to slightly bleach out the environment until my eyes adjust. This is what occurs in project Gotham Racing 3 and onwards when you come out of a tunnel. It's a subtle but immersive effect.

Graphically I was hoping by now that there may be at-least some footage of an aircaft in a real environment, after-all, how are we expected to show our friends and potential customers of the future what they are missing out on, when we have the latest update of a Tiger Moth against a tired backdrop and without any Anti-Aliasing.

Just a little disappointed and don't forget, SoW had to be at a certain stage of readiness before patch 4.09 complete was released.

Just a little disappointed....so Oleg, please show us some video at this advanced stage in production.

Cheers, MP.

[Flanker35M]

S!

I think Oleg holds back moving video until close to release. AS said all over the terrain is not ready yet etc and seeing WIP in motion would cause whinery and moaning anyway, even it would flash WIP on screen every 3 seconds ;)

As of graphics. Immersion is more important to me than fullblown eyecandy. Graphics have to serve their purpose, not just be there to look good or make the game just another nice gfx engine tech demo. Rise Of Flight has very good graphics..maybe not state of the art terrain or all that but the feel and such is there.

In short..graphics should be for being played, not for screenshots or movies ;) After all, how much do you pay attention if a screw is Phillips or Torx if you are being chased by a bloodthirsty opponent on your tail? ;)

[IceFire]

I think Mysticpuma is right that the really nice visuals can be really useful to immersion. Things that seem like eye candy but really help fit the feeling of WWII air combat are things ... stuff that we've all seen in the gun camera footage... of bits breaking off in different ways. I hope some of this does make its way in.

Obviously there is a point where feature creep sets in and you can spend many more years making stuff perfect. There is a point of diminishing returns but I do hope for some little things that make everything worthwhile.

I do have hope... we've seen the seagull model months and months back. Flocks of birds...even simple ones would make things so much more interesting visually. Just an example of little finishing touches that will take this from excellent to superb!

[Tree_UK]

According to Grunch we have seen the actual 'in game shots' already.

How many do you want?
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0100.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0101.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0102.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0103.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0104.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0105.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0106.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0108.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0110.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0111.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0112.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0113.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0116.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0117.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0126.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0130.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0131.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0147.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0168.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/windowslights0006.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/windowslights0007.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/bf1090001.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/sky44.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/sky45.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/sky46.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/sky47.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/rotatnigprop.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/SpitfirePilot01.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/BR20_03.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/0019.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/0021.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/0022.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/0026.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/shot_20091204_152922.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/shot_20091204_152924.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/shot_20091204_161805.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/shot_20091204_162147.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/x02.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/x03.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/x04.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/x05.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/x06.jpg

Did you have trouble finding the news thread, Tree?

[Flanker35M]

S!

Well in that Stuka picture in bottom with window damage and seeing ground below..there are purple buildings and it clearly tells the game engine is not finished yet ;) We get these anomalies in IL2 if drivers or similar are not OK ;)

I would guess Oleg will drop a "SoW Bomb" a bit before release, to make people drool and anticipate it. He is good in this kind of stuff ;) Before that the regular updates keep coming and possibly now and then some hints and tips for what to wait :D

As IceFire said, there is a point how much you want to detail things. How much is useful and meaningful as overdoing it just wastes resources that could be used elsewhere. Balance in everything. And snipping off something not really needed from somewhere can free resources to add something more in fidelity elsewhere...

But SoW will be a benchmark on it's own as IL-2 was 2001. And as you see, IL2 still goes strong at age of 10 years :) So what can we expect from SoW..SoW:MTO, SoW:PTO, SoW:KTO? ;)

[Jaws2002]

The only things i find disapointing so far are the color of the sky and sea water. In all SOW, in game screenshots I've seen, the water looks like in a bussy port, and the sky looks like over a big poluted city. If you traveled around the world a little, you probabily know that the sky and sea color can be dramatically different from place to place, or from day to day.

Is like they are afraid to make the ocean water BLUE. If you go few miles away from the port , the sea water is just ....Blue. Is not mudy or dirty, with a lot of sand in suspension, like in all the shots I've seen so far.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Still WIP, the game engine is not final yet and colors etc. are still tuned and made if I read the news right. Even the pics wold be from "in game" the game is not finished thus WIP. So be patient :)

[Tree_UK]

I agree 100%. Some forum members are confused has to what 'in game' means.

[Specht]

Those pictures are IN GAME, they are taken inside the engine of the game, they are not blue screen/render pictures.

And they are also WIP pictures because the textures, lightning effects and all those things might be changed for the final product, but being WIP does not mean it's not in game, your conception is completely messed up.

WIP IN GAME SCREENSHOTS.

[Tree_UK]

Oh gawd, In game means all things will appear 'in game', they may add more stuff to it, 'in game' does not mean 'with a place holder background'.

[philip.ed]

Tree, original il-2 pics are in game shots. However, if a patch was released to make the terrain WoP standard that terrain would begin to look rather crap. These are in game shots, as Oleg and Luthier have stated, which is showing an in-game test map. Nothing is final, but the shots are taken in game. You are a very stubborn person from what I have seen, so I doubt you'll believe me here.

[SlipBall]

The game already appears to be ten fold what IL-2 is today. I have been very amazed at what was shown and was told about in the recent month's up-dates. If it was released today, who here would be able to put it aside. Bring it to market by the anniversity and I will be a happy camper...many of those pic's are grabs from in-game, and they look great to me.:grin:

[Insuber]

For newcomers who haven't seen them yet, just a couple of - very old - videos, to appreciate the detail of cockpits:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwxtXt6AB4E&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JphWfh5gPYE&feature=player_embedded

Bye,
Ins

[Feuerfalke]

I wish you hadn't shared your thoughts, MP. You are an active member for a long time, with some special insights, relations and experiences. What you wrote basically disregards all of that.

1. The comparison of CoD (MW) and SoW is the best example for that complete misconception. The engine of CoD is old - I mean, really OLD. It's basically just the minimized engine of the old CoD-series stripped from most options to be ported to a console, than porting it back to PC upgrading the graphics.
Honestly, MP, if that is what you want, go for Birds of Prey - you'll love it. (And that's no rant)

2. The "certain stage of readiness"-thing is just the "I know better than Oleg"-kind of rant a lot of people posted here with their 2nd and 3rd accounts. You have no idea what that "certain stage" was and besides that, obviously have forgotten, that it was DeadalusTeam, which finalized the patch, not Oleg's team as the announcement indicated!!!

3. You already have ingame videos available. Check recent posts. Now, that is of course not what you want to see - you want to see the full detailed and working graphics and physics engine, with all whistles and bells. So do we. And so does Oleg. Fact is though, this world does not work care about things we want, but about things that are. And a thing that is being worked on cannot be shown in the finalized version - our timeline forbids that. ;)

[Tree_UK]

For single player, I would love to see my aircraft shows signs of the last fight I was in, for example if I took a few MG hits I would love to see signs that my spitty had been patched up ready for the next sortie, and the weathering being more pronounced as the bird gets older, so you that you kind of become attached to your aircraft. It would also be good if your kills got painted on to your bird aswell. I dont think this would be to difficult to include and again maybe it already is.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

I wish you hadn't shared your thoughts, MP. You are an active member for a long time, with some special insights, relations and experiences. What you wrote basically disregards all of that.


As usual you disregard opinions when they don't suit you ..... more and more 'Veteran IL2 Pilots' are saying the same thing ....

..... but in your world telling the truth = disloyal

That dog won't hunt anymore .....

.
.

[IceFire]

Oh gawd, In game means all things will appear 'in game', they may add more stuff to it, 'in game' does not mean 'with a place holder background'.

Engine rendered in the engine and indicated as such (and I believe the list above are all marked by Oleg as being rendered by the engine) are "in-game". Not all features are necessary turned on and final quality will probably be far different.

The difference between what we're seeing and the standard fare of video game makers showing off their work is that Oleg isn't afraid (although maybe he should be) to show off early work in progress where all of the hard work has already been done but not everything is close to final quality. We know that all shots so far have been done in the basic renderer as well ... Oleg says that is what the DX9 version is like but I suspect that is DX9 with features turned off.

Some shots are rendered in-engine but with a placeholder background. Sort of like the object viewer in IL-2. That can also be considered in-game or in-engine...

We could all split hairs on this mind you :)

[Tree_UK]

good reply Icefire , I will take that onboard.

[zaelu]

I just think SOW is further delayed that's why you don't see much ingame graphics.

I remember Oleg said years ago that it will be OpenGL then last year turned out that is DirectX... so the entire graphic engine was redone. Many objects from the first "shots" of SoW where lower quality than some mods today... now we see models of bugs climbing grass... or something.

I think SoW is still greatly WiP and is my personal assumption that the graphic engine is not completely shown do to the obvious fact that is not done yet.

Sure you have self shadowing and few other touches but those can be made in any graphic engine you buy at second hand on the market... I mean is not a complete graphic engine, just bits of hardware capabilities. As a side note... that thing with no AA due to HDR is not correct anymore for new graphic cards from nVidia... I think ATI didn't had the issue when they introduced HDR.

So... simply... bluntly put. There are no ingame screenshots and movies cause there is no game yet. There are objects and mechanical stuff they can't show in pics (like wind and AI) but that's all.

I think I just hope the project will not be dumped some day due to economical happiness from the world...

[furbs]

careful Zaelu...people have been lynched here for speaking like that :)

(spot on post BTW)

[Tree_UK]

100% agree, but in an optimistic way if that helps my defence at the Kangeroo court.

[furbs]

nope...it wont

[robtek]

Some people just can't see anybody happy with the things as they are and have to pour their pessimistic dog-turd to pull everybody down to their level.
It is just boring, as them are going the easy way, as it is much easier to gain enemys as to gain friends.

[Tree_UK]

Some people are just expressing there views and their honest opinions, others feel they have to rubbish them.

[Qpassa]

Let Oleg team make their work. It's great

[Tree_UK]

I agree, what Oleg has done so far is very good. Its what we haven't seen that is the intersting bit.

[Mysticpuma]

The comparison of CoD (MW) and SoW is the best example for that complete misconception. The engine of CoD is old - I mean, really OLD. It's basically just the minimized engine of the old CoD-series stripped from most options to be ported to a console, than porting it back to PC upgrading the graphics.
Honestly, MP, if that is what you want, go for Birds of Prey - you'll love it. (And that's no rant)

2. The "certain stage of readiness"-thing is just the "I know better than Oleg"-kind of rant a lot of people posted here with their 2nd and 3rd accounts. You have no idea what that "certain stage" was and besides that, obviously have forgotten, that it was DeadalusTeam, which finalized the patch, not Oleg's team as the announcement indicated!!!

3. You already have ingame videos available. Check recent posts. Now, that is of course not what you want to see - you want to see the full detailed and working graphics and physics engine, with all whistles and bells. So do we. And so does Oleg. Fact is though, this world does not work care about things we want, but about things that are. And a thing that is being worked on cannot be shown in the finalized version - our time-line forbids that. ;)

1) Maybe I haven't put it the best way I could have then? The example of CoD was so that it would have a comparison Graphically, that's all. At the moment IL2 is the foundation that SoW is being built on or followed by. The fundamental skeleton is there with sound gameplay and avionics.

We know that under the skin everything is getting tweaked, improved and added to, but now the computers actually have the power to shift Polygons around with ease, and following my example of CoD, surely the detail (not just poly count) can be given a slick coat of paint?

When I 'interviewed' Oleg he talked of skinners being able to work with 4096x4096 skins...can you imagine the detail?

So with a higher poly count on the aircraft models, surely it's not expecting to much for the environments and paintwork to look significantly more improved than IL2?

CoD had a low Poly count when released, but the actual game and lighting effects more than made up for this, along with the story.

Now, SoW already has a solid story to follow, IL2 had the low Poly count, so now SoW can have the High Poly count, and lighting effects brought up to date in 2010, should surely allow Radiosity and Caustics along with HDR? I hope that explains the reason I chose CoD as the example?

With advancements in graphics, environments should be so-much more improved. Proper low-lying patches of fog with burning fires marking runways, real time weathering of aircraft skins and interiors, glints of light off glass and metal, rain on the cockpit that is affected by air-speed, smoke hanging and spreading in the air above cities indicating where the action is, smoke pots laying smoke cover over cities, the list can go on, but all of these are graphic updates that can now be incorporated into SoW as Computers can now handle this intensive processing.

When IL2 came out it pushed PC's, some to the limit. This is what I would expect of SoW too! So it should be playable at 1600x1200, but in about 5-years time resolutions over 2000 and everything switched on will be possible.

If I hark on about graphics, it's because that's my first point of contact in a simulation/game. What I see involves me in the game, what happens after is the next part of the immersion and this is all retrospective, so going back to CoD 1, that was immersive, the graphics were amazing, the story was very well written and the sounds too held me in there.
Look back at it now, and it looks a little ragged compared to now, but it still is strong in story and sounds (and game-length too).

So IL2, amazingly still looks superb for a flight-sim released so-long ago, the audio is weak but the foundation of it's,origins (story) is WW2, and that hold an interest with most people who are on this forum.

So SoW should be graphically superior, audibly greatly superior (oh for real engine sounds to be incorporated) and the story of the battle of Britain is undisputed in it's pedigree.

I'm not, I hope, asking too much to expect this new sim to have lots more bells and whistles in comparison to Il2?

2) I misunderstood that Oleg had said patch 4.09 would not be released until SoW reached a certain stage of development. I didn't realise Team Deadilus had taken over IL2 completely now.

3) I do appreciate the fact that these guys are developing one of the most anticipated Flight Sims of modern times and I think that there-in lies my greatest frustration.

As much as we would like to think that the Flight Sim market is incredibly popular,it would be very blinkered to say that was true. Of-course and as we are discussing this on a flight-sim forum, we all have our own yearning for the latest and greatest sim to arrive from Oleg. The problem is, we all know that this exists.

Now, I take a screen-grab of a Tiger Moth to a group of my friends, who have no interest in flight-sims, they look at it (I actually did this yesterday) and go, "looks like IL2, so why would I buy it?"

Now, I then showed them the Spitfire and Stuka images, and they asked me what Sim that was from because they looked brilliant!

They couldn't believe it when I said it was the same game! So, how do I (we) attract more players into the virtual skies, how do i get people looking forward and anticipating this game as much as we are? Well, let me take some real, in-game footage to them, put it on youtube (HQ), just start raising expectations of people outside of the 'base' community and try to grab newcomers interest.

When all is said and done, no-matter how you want to consider it, Still images and videos ARE advertising for the game, and if these are good or great, people pass them around to their friends and it becomes a type of viral marketing..in a good way!

I appreciate the comments of being a long standing community member, and for that reason, and I have already stated this, I would be more than willing to create a video, for marketing, showcasing features of SoW...FOR FREE!!

That offer, made at-least a year-ago, still stands.

For now though, I want to spread the word about SoW, so please can we have some images and footage (like the Spitfire and Stuka with light effects) so that people can see this could be an essential purchase.

Sorry for standing on my soap-box a little, but I fell strongly about this, I really do.

Cheers, MP.

[Tree_UK]

I agree with your post mystic 100%, however i truly believe that we will not see any real time footage for a considerable time because imho its simply not done. So far we have only seen 20% or so of what will be in the finished Sim and yet some forum users suggest its 90% or more finished. Obviously Oleg could be holding back but I cannot see any logic in this although others have tried too give there own interpretations as to why we have seen so little.

I would like to see at least some of these within the next few months,

A map of Britian
Any finished Terrain
Aircraft moving
damage models (smoking or burning/exploding aircraft)
Single player content
weatherd aircraft
In game menu / interface
system spec's
dedicated website
Any video footage from realtime enviroment
Terrain of london or indeed any town or city
Any sounds from within the game
Weather/ or weather effects / clouds etc
Campaign details
mission builder/quick mission builder

[SlipBall]

If you watched the hanger door video, you were inside a rolling aircraft:-P...I don't understand the lack of confidence in the team. After all they brought you IL-2, and they know a bit about how to do it right. Things seem to be progressing well

[robtek]

@SlipBall

There are people that want to see a finished product 7 months before it is finished.
i can't imagine what those people think olegs team will be doing in their world within the next 7 months when everything is already done????

[Tree_UK]

I haven't got a lack of confidence this year, maybe last year and the year before that. I'm just not has excited as you are by what I have seen at this moment in time, there is nothing you can say to change that and it does not make me wrong, neither does it make me ungrateful or a whiner. It is my opinion, if you dont wish to hear it click the 'ignore button'. On the other hand even though i am not has enthusiastic as some on here I like to see what thier opinions are, and I dont rubbish anyone that is overly excited about the current state of SOW's development. Oleg would simply hate a forum where all he got was adoration, I'm sure he welcomes debate, discussion and honesty.
It is obvious we can not see a finished product before it is finished, no-one is asking that, but if there is truly only 7 months to go before release one would quite reasonably expect to maybe see something more than we have already, or maybe see some form of marketing begin to kick in.

[ECV56_Lancelot]

Even if i have confidence on Maddox Games, because they have IL-2 as an example of what they can acomplish, Tree have some very valid points. If you think a little, assuming a release on the end of 2010, which means beginning of December of current year, you have 11 months ahead. If you add to that probably a couple of months of beta testing with external beta testers, you have left nine months. Don´t know if it will be released in a box or only online, but if we will get a boxed release, you can add another month for copy and distribution of the game, leaving you eight months.
Eight months, if you want a well finnished and polished sim, its a very short time left for developing since most of that time you will need it for puting all together, polishing and developing missionsm campaigns, GUI, and internal testing of the game.
So, not knowing how advanced is the sim, for what it has been showed so far, and expecting a sims at least as polished as IL-2 was when it was released (one of the most polished sims ever released, but that still lacked work on some things), i would have to agree with Tree that its hard to beleive in a release this year. The only thing that plays against that is the Oleg stated that he must release the sim this year.

[Insuber]

Mysticpuma,


Good arguments, correctly highlighting the importance of visual quality. We all wish to get a photorealistic real-time simulation, don’t we? :wink:

I didn’t like particularly the external Tiger Moth views, they look quite flat, but the cockpit is gorgeous …
And as you say, we saw already some good stuff in the screenshots, for I keep high expectations on this game: I like to believe that the final in-game rendering is not yet operational, and as stated by Oleg the final result will be much better …

For our wish list there are few possibilities, apart from the obvious “Work In Progress” issue:

1. Technically feasible / unfeasible with current H/W and S/W
2. Compatible or not with the budget and schedule
3. Low or high in Olegs priority list, dictated by his ideas and by our feedback

One will notice that presently the only element which we, forum users, can influence, is the possibly the latter. The final product will be a compromise, as always, between finite development resources and unlimited users wishes.

What will not be in the first release, *could* be implemented in the next episodes, depending again from the above factors, and from the market response.

Regards,
Insuber

[Chivas]

Mysticpuma,

I didn’t like particularly the external Tiger Moth views, they look quite flat, but the cockpit is gorgeous …
Insuber

Luthier..Quote
"These are taken within our model viewer, and the background is not representative of the actual in-game terrain."

I read this as the terrain behind the Tiger Moth is just a place holder. We know Olegs vision for the terrain is photorealistic, and I'm sure he has alot of tweaking to do before its presentable enough for him to want to provide us with screens or a video. Hopefully it will progress enough in the coming months for this to happen.

Modelling this highly detailed map in a huge undertaking, and we have no idea from the info we have seen, how so far along this part of the project has progressed. We do know that Oleg wasn't happy with the colors and was taking the project home over the holidays to tweak them himself.

[Insuber]

Insuber ... quote:

"I didn’t like particularly the external *Tiger Moth* views"

I meant the aircraft view, not the terrain ... :)

The plane looks flat, maybe it is WIP issue, maybe not. I don't know.

Regards,
Insuber


Luthier..Quote
"These are taken within our model viewer, and the background is not representative of the actual in-game terrain."

I read this as the terrain behind the Tiger Moth is just a place holder. We know Olegs vision for the terrain is photorealistic, and I'm sure he has alot of tweaking to do before its presentable enough for him to want to provide us with screens or a video. Hopefully it will progress enough in the coming months for this to happen.

Modelling this highly detailed map in a huge undertaking, and we have no idea from the info we have seen, how so far along this part of the project has progressed. We do know that Oleg wasn't happy with the colors and was taking the project home over the holidays to tweak them himself.

[GOZR]

If I look into the cockpit my pupil will enlarge to let my light in. When I look back out again, I'd expect a slight over-brightness in my vision

well it's not quite like this in RL Puma.. like in ARMA2 totally unreal.. having the sun strong like in IL2 is great for sure.

[Tree_UK]

Luthier..Quote
"These are taken within our model viewer, and the background is not representative of the actual in-game terrain."

I read this as the terrain behind the Tiger Moth is just a place holder. We know Olegs vision for the terrain is photorealistic, and I'm sure he has alot of tweaking to do before its presentable enough for him to want to provide us with screens or a video. Hopefully it will progress enough in the coming months for this to happen.

Modelling this highly detailed map in a huge undertaking, and we have no idea from the info we have seen, how so far along this part of the project has progressed. We do know that Oleg wasn't happy with the colors and was taking the project home over the holidays to tweak them himself.

The terrain has been finished since May last year Chivas.

See Oleg quto below.

Oleg: The main content is ready now. 10% of the content — such as the ships and some of the ground objects on the airfields — are all that is left to be done. At the same time we are currently adding new 3D graphic effects and other features to the Storm of War series engine, and make the campaign, animate people, test and retest, etc. During the year we will spend time completing the Storm of War series engine and the first project, Storm of War: Battle of Britain. So to say that it is now 80% complete would be accurate.

According to Oleg all that needs to be finished are ships and some ground objects and some 3D graphic effects. The actual Terrain has been done for a good while.

[Chivas]

The terrain has been finished since May last year Chivas.

See Oleg quto below.

Oleg: The main content is ready now. 10% of the content — such as the ships and some of the ground objects on the airfields — are all that is left to be done. At the same time we are currently adding new 3D graphic effects and other features to the Storm of War series engine, and make the campaign, animate people, test and retest, etc. During the year we will spend time completing the Storm of War series engine and the first project, Storm of War: Battle of Britain. So to say that it is now 80% complete would be accurate.

According to Oleg all that needs to be finished are ships and some ground objects and some 3D graphic effects. The actual Terrain has been done for a good while.

Adding 3d graphics effects can also be terrain related. I'm sure ideas and technology advances has changed what he can and can't do with his game engine over the last few years. Anyway as you well know things change.

[Tree_UK]

Yeah, but there has to be a point when someone decides its done, If the Terrain in May 2009 was finished you'd of thought we would have had at least a glimpse of it by now.

[IceFire]

We don't know exactly what he means by the terrain is finished. He may mean (I won't pretend to put words into peoples mouths) that the terrain system is finished. But the actual look of the terrain can be massively altered by textures alone... just like at the Slovakia map... same terrain system as always but the visual is much more impressive than the earlier maps that we have.

We have seen a few shots of the terrain on the test map but I suspect that is still not what the finished look is going to be like at all. Soon I hope!

[Tree_UK]

We don't know exactly what he means by the terrain is finished. He may mean (I won't pretend to put words into peoples mouths) that the terrain system is finished. But the actual look of the terrain can be massively altered by textures alone... just like at the Slovakia map... same terrain system as always but the visual is much more impressive than the earlier maps that we have.

We have seen a few shots of the terrain on the test map but I suspect that is still not what the finished look is going to be like at all. Soon I hope!

Ive not seen anything that looks 'photo realistic' as of yet though. I guess time will tell. Re-reading the interview with Oleg though from May 2009, where he states that SOW is 80% complete is encouraging, its just that with the WIP's we have seen so far it looks to be way off completion. Oleg must be holding it all back and if what he said back then is true it will be released anytime soon.

[Qpassa]

Let's be patient, let Oleg Team do their own work

[Chivas]

Yeah, but there has to be a point when someone decides its done, If the Terrain in May 2009 was finished you'd of thought we would have had at least a glimpse of it by now.

I have no idea why we aren't seeing more terrain shots other than for whatever reason(s)Oleg isn't ready to post them.

Its not ready?
He's not happy with the look of the terrain yet?
competition?

I thought we would be seeing terrain shots last summer. Anyway I prefer to be optimistic rather than pessimistic. Hopefully Oleg will also be optimistic and have the resources to keep working on SOW until he feels its ready for release.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

I have no idea why we aren't seeing more terrain shots other than for whatever reason(s)Oleg isn't ready to post them.

Its not ready?
He's not happy with the look of the terrain yet?
competition?

All 3 and a few more you failed to mention ....

.
.

[nearmiss]

You might want to go back and look at this link --->

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=128534&postcount=10

Two smiley faces, what do you think that means?

I have never been disappointed with any graphic elements or graphic additions to the IL2 from Oleg.

Oleg has played his hand close to his chest, and no one knows what he is holding.

http://michaelscomments.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/dogs-playing-poker.jpg

[Chivas]

You might want to go back and look at this link --->

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=128534&postcount=10

Two smiley faces, what do you think that means?

I have never been disappointed with any graphic elements or graphic additions to the IL2 from Oleg.

Oleg has played his hand close to his chest, and no one knows what he is holding.

http://michaelscomments.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/dogs-playing-poker.jpg

I'm not sure what the two smilie faces means:

The idea is a total joke?
Or there is some truth too it? I know Oleg had some employee issues, and many of the items in WOP were very very similiar to IL-2 and I'm not talking about the FM etc that Oleg gave to the Gaijin developers.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

Nearmiss

Your reading a tremendous amount into a couple of smileys .....

You may not have been disappointed with any of the graphics you have seen for S.o.W but that is not the prevailing opinion in the larger community ..... one which Oleg has 'noted' and decided to work on personally.

Far as I am concerned we were going to get served a steaming pile of poop for graphics till W.o.P came along and opened some (his) eyes.

Nothing so far that can be termed " HD Cinematic " graphics ..... and I am getting more than a little tired of washed out over weathered pits. Front line fighters in the Battle of Britain did not have a combat lifespan long enough to 'weather' like that..... but apparently Luthier does not find 'new' pits 'interesting' ..... so much for 'realism' when it doesn't suit us eh ? :rolleyes:

.
.

[csThor]

Protos: Since when your opinion has anything to do with what the "larger community" thinks? And who appointed you as a spokesperson?

I, quite frankly, don't see what the issue is. Are your lifes so awful that you need to make a computer game its center? Are you guys in some kind of midlife crisis? Or what is the reason behind all that doom&gloom here? Sheesh! :rolleyes:

[Skarphol]

Are you guys in some kind of midlife crisis?


Well, I am 40, slightly overweight, thin in the hair... mid life crisis is absoulutely a possibility.
But, frankly I'm quite optimistic about this game. Maybe except for the release date.

Skarphol

[vpmedia]

Well, I am 40, slightly overweight, thin in the hair... mid life crisis is absoulutely a possibility.
But, frankly I'm quite optimistic about this game. Maybe except for the release date.

Skarphol

well said mate :)

+1 on all points

[Foo'bar]

Ive not seen anything that looks 'photo realistic' as of yet though. I guess time will tell. Re-reading the interview with Oleg though from May 2009, where he states that SOW is 80% complete is encouraging, its just that with the WIP's we have seen so far it looks to be way off completion. Oleg must be holding it all back and if what he said back then is true it will be released anytime soon.

How often have you to tell that SoW hasn't been finished yet? :facepalm:

[JVM]

Hello Foo'bar...

[Tree_UK]

How often have you to tell that SoW hasn't been finished yet? :facepalm:

Thanks for that Foobar and there was me thinking it was on the shelves already, what would i do without you guys. :grin:

[Chivas]

I've thought for a long while that alot of what you see in BOP/WOP was the basis of the original SOW that was to be released along time ago but Oleg wasn't happy with it. Hence some employee's and publisher parting ways. Some of those lost employee's may have become a part of the Gaijin developers team. Oleg's gift to Gaijin of IL-2 FM's etc sounds alittle suspect and I wonder if there is much more to it. This could be where Oleg gets his funding to continue work on the SOW project, especially if UBI is no longer in the picture.. Oleg has stated that SOW is better in every way than BOP.


This is based on some early screenshots of SOW that were almost copies of what I've seen in BOP, especially the White Cliffs of Dover, and village lay outs.

UBI announcing the eminent release of SOW in 2006/2007. SOW had to be close to completion in that period. What happened?

Not an official comment about SOW from UBI since that announcement around 3 years ago.

Aspects of BOP are very similar to IL-2, and not just because they're both combat flight sims. ;)


Anyway its fun to speculate, and I don't really care either way, as long as we eventually see a new combat flight sim benchmark in the SOW series.

[philip.ed]

+1 to that chivas.

If you look at the vids for SoW when it was in the first edition engine (based on Il-2) you can see that clouds, planes, cockpits and terrain are all really good; I'd say that all three of what I've mentioned (bar the terrain) is better than WoP.

Now if Oleg wasn't happy with that, then I'm expecting wonders here....

[furbs]

thats pretty much what i think...WOP looks so much like the Mysticpuma video from a while back to me.

[Tree_UK]

I've thought for a long while that alot of what you see in BOP/WOP was the basis of the original SOW that was to be released along time ago but Oleg wasn't happy with it. Hence some employee's and publisher parting ways. Some of those lost employee's may have become a part of the Gaijin developers team. Oleg's gift to Gaijin of IL-2 FM's etc sounds alittle suspect and I wonder if there is much more to it. This could be where Oleg gets his funding to continue work on the SOW project, especially if UBI is no longer in the picture.. Oleg has stated that SOW is better in every way than BOP.


This is based on some early screenshots of SOW that were almost copies of what I've seen in BOP, especially the White Cliffs of Dover, and village lay outs.

UBI announcing the eminent release of SOW in 2006/2007. SOW had to be close to completion in that period. What happened?

Not an official comment about SOW from UBI since that announcement around 3 years ago.

Aspects of BOP are very similar to IL-2, and not just because they're both combat flight sims. ;)


Anyway its fun to speculate, and I don't really care either way, as long as we eventually see a new combat flight sim benchmark in the SOW series.

100% Agree Chivas, Ive been telling people in here that Ubi are no longer involved with SOW for the last 2 years but I was flamed and eventually banned for repeating such things, so be careful. I mean call me Sherlock but all I did was phone up and ask Ubisoft and they told me, still no-one on here believed me and yet again I was acuused of being a trouble making Troll/whiner. However I think its generally accepted these days that Ubi are not innvolved. <Apology accepted>.

WOP & BOP, its so bloody obvious isn't it, I mean They both have Maddox games written all over them, the ground detail is the same has seen on the SOW free DVD that we had all those years ago, and yet we are repeatably told that Oleg and crew had nothing to do with either project....., its laughable really. :grin:

[major_setback]

I think we are all thinking the same thing: SoW is well on it's way. But we differ in how long we think it will take to get from the present stage of development to the final product.

I must say that I am sceptical about it being completed before the end of the year. The WiP's we saw from (for example) RoF looked a lot more complete at this stage (a year before release), and SoW:BoB will be very much more complex than that game, so will presumably take more time. Also I can't see Oleg releasing a game that is half-completed, as RoF was.

As has been stated before, time has to be reserved for: various types of testing on different computers, bug testing, bug fixes, adjustments to flight models/weather/etc.

I know Oleg has stated that most of the elements of the sim are ready, and just need to be incorporated in the game engine. But that will not be so simple. There are bound to be problems with each element, and how it fits with the others. I can imagine that even just one thing such as railway lines could cause lots of problems when added to the maps, especially when they have to cross towns, or hills.
And something as seemingly simple as getting the colour right has taken scince the end of the summer to adjust, and it isn't finished yet!

I'm optimistic - that the game will be released at some time in the future: when it's ready. It is because of my optimism that I question the release date given. It has to be completed first, whatever anyone wants to believe, and irrespective of the given release date.

[Insuber]

It is common project management wisdom that the last 10% of the project can last 10 times more than what was estimated ... fine tuning, punchlisting, troubleshooting can take an umpredictably awful amount of time, especially when not managed aggressively and in a disciplined manner. And the develoment of this sim looks anything but linear and predictible ...

At any rate, when the glorious Il2 will fade away in the shine of the triumphant almighty SoW, I will miss it a lot ... hundreds of planes, dozens of maps, an unparalleled playability ... trade in all that for a handful of flyable old crates and one single map ... SoW must be really really good...

Ins

[robtek]

All this guessing what will take how long and when will it come if at all is a complete waste of time and space!!!
Those which talk aren't knowing and those who know aren't talking.

[Tree_UK]

All this guessing what will take how long and when will it come if at all is a complete waste of time and space!!!
Those which talk aren't knowing and those who know aren't talking.

Your right Robtek, lets shut the forums down and just wait.

[IceFire]

We could.... you know.... talk about planes and history. Isn't that why we're here? :)

[flyingbullseye]

We could.... you know.... talk about planes and history. Isn't that why we're here? :)

Nope, I'm here for the show. ;)

Flyingbullseye

[Qpassa]

All this guessing what will take how long and when will it come if at all is a complete waste of time and space!!!
Those which talk aren't knowing and those who know aren't talking.
Tao Te Ching :)

[SlipBall]

Your right Robtek, lets shut the forums down and just wait.



Yes we should shut it down and take our children for a very long car ride...ARE WE THERE YET! repeat:grin:

[Tree_UK]

Yes we should shut it down and take our children for a very long car ride...ARE WE THERE YET! repeat:grin:

Oh no, not that one again..... <sigh>

[Flanker35M]

S!

The old saying "Circus runs even clowns change" is so true ;)

[Skoshi Tiger]

At any rate, when the glorious Il2 will fade away in the shine of the triumphant almighty SoW, I will miss it a lot ... hundreds of planes, dozens of maps, an unparalleled playability ... trade in all that for a handful of flyable old crates and one single map ... SoW must be really really good...

Ins

Insuber, you are looking at it from the wrong angle. "A handful of flyable old crates" indeed! We'll be flying the most sophisicated and advanced fighter aircraft in production during the time period covered by first installment of the sim
That's why Olegs sequence of starting at close to the begining of the conflict and working forward will keep us eagerly waiting for updates, patches and paid addon.

Compared this to Rise of flight where they started at the end of WWI and forgot about the first four years of the conflict - Imagine paying for a inferior aircaft to go onto a online server and get your arse whipped!

I would realy like to see a situation in SOW where the balance of power swaps backward and forward between the two sides as new aircraft sets are introduced. This would lead to a fantastic ride over the life of the sim (next 10 years or so ;) )

[Flanker35M]

S!

Rise Of Flight maybe modelled 1917-18 for a reason, and did it damn well :) Been a while I enjoyed and had fun or even immersed myself to a flight sim..RoF did that, brought the smile back. I laugh my arse off flying these suicide planes, damn fun!

SoW will be an advancement in many things, but in what remains to be seen. For sure it brings graphics up to date..but that alone does not make a sim great. Oleg changed a lot in sim world with IL-2 and for sure will do so with SoW :)

[Skoshi Tiger]

S!

Rise Of Flight maybe modelled 1917-18 for a reason, and did it damn well :) Been a while I enjoyed and had fun or even immersed myself to a flight sim..RoF did that, brought the smile back. I laugh my arse off flying these suicide planes, damn fun!

SoW will be an advancement in many things, but in what remains to be seen. For sure it brings graphics up to date..but that alone does not make a sim great. Oleg changed a lot in sim world with IL-2 and for sure will do so with SoW :)

Rise of flight 'DID' do very well and is still going strong, but the longevity of the sim will depend on how well they can keep their customers attention.

I bought ROF very early on and it's a good sim and getting better with each patch. I've also bought two of the expansion aircraft. Will I want to play a limited 1917-18 sim for a long time or will I get bored and move on? Only time will tell!

The point I was trying to make is that if you want to make an interesting simulated environment it's easier moving forward than back.

If you go forward intime you get get a mixture of older and newer aircraft as more are released. As in real life it gets to a point where the oldest planes become obsolite or move on to newer roles (fighter to ground attack maybe). To shift the balance of power you just have to release one or two modern aircraft and the environment becomes richer.

If you take the rise of flight model, where they are releasing the planes one or two at a time, when they decide to release earlier period aircraft early misson will only have one or two correct aircraft and the environment will be bland ands sterile. To make "interesting" early missions they will have to release a "pack" with a reasonable number of planes for the time period. This is not how they've been releasing planes up till now, so when it comes it will be a major undertaking for them.

I personally would have prefered ROF to have starting off in the 1914/15 time period and build the sim up over time. I will continue supporting the ROF deleopers by buying their updates as long as they keep it interesting for me.

That said I can see that Olegs model of development will (in all likely hood) keep me interested and checking for updates for a long time. (As long as he can keep it interesting for me that is!)

Cheers! :)

[HFC_Dolphin]

I shared the same concerns as Mysticpuma's a bit before ( http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=136659&postcount=44 and elsewhere) and all I can say is that we should all be calm.

In my opinion, it is absolutely legitimate to publicly show our concerns, keeping always in mind that we do not have the information and the knowledge that Oleg has. Meaning: we can be totally wrong ;)
Nevertheless, there is always the chance that we show Oleg and the rest of the team some things that can be changed and they may have forgotten or misjudged them.
Simple example: when we saw the pilot models, I and others were the first to say that they were too cartoonish and not good enough. The outcome was that Luthier asked for photos of people from the community to implement these faces into the game and this is definitely a good thing that happened.
Same has happened with many other small or bigger issues as far as I know and I can understand.
This is a very complicated game, made by a small team compared to teams that develop major hits and I'm pretty sure that our feedback is always welcome.

What we should all think is that we should not either be insulting and whining, nor judge those who try for the best of the game, even by publicly sharing their concerns.

In the end, Oleg has proven that he can deliver great product and we should have faith in him and the rest of the Vodka-team :P

Let's be positively supportive!

[dduff442]

The complaints are as encouraging as the support really. Both are signs of immense anticipation. 1c:Maddox has great brand value. I'll be buying SoW on release however it's received because I know it will evolve into a product without equal.

PS, re. your sig, I read a piece by a Korean war pilot once where he said the element leader should usually allow 3% throttle to account for his wingman's lack of experience. If an experienced pilot effectively gets 3% more throttle than a highly trained jet pilot, it's not hard to imagine the difference between an experienced pilot and a genuinely poor one.

[Flanker35M]

S!

There is no progress without criticism. But the criticism must be constructive and the receiver with an open mind :) SoW is so much awaited that people go frenzy and discussions tend to heat up :D

[ECV56_Lancelot]

Well, maybe this video from last friday update will improve expectations for some people, and increase them for others. :)

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=12757&page=2

[Chivas]

That is an amazing video. :)

[Skoshi Tiger]

All I can say is Wow! and still obviously a work in progress (guages bouncing around and all)
The wait for the release of this sim is getting harder and harder every time a snippet like that video gets released!

Cheers!

[Tree_UK]

That is an amazing video. :)

It is very good. :grin:

[Mysticpuma]

And there we have it guys! What do we see as the new video of the fully lit Spitfire hits the forums? Yes, a great wave and crescendo of happy voices as the 'oooooooooooohhhhhhh' factor hits in.

This was all it took, a short, simple video showing a detailed cockpit, with what appear to be in-game graphics (sea and clouds) and dynamic lighting effects.

We are a fickle bunch, hard to please when we can't see what's being done, and yet releasing such a short video and suddenly.....everything is forgiven.

Thanks for the video, see....did that really hurt and just think how much positive publicity you've now got from it? The forums are buzzing again!

Cheers, MP.

[Insuber]

I wonder what are your guesstimates about the release date now :D

[SlipBall]

I don't understand the surprise wake up moment here, that the sim is usable. Luthier posted weeks ago screenshots that he said he took while flying around that ship. Take a new look at them, they tell many things as to graphics, and just imagine the game play:-P

[Skoshi Tiger]

I just hope the poor SOB that leaked the video doesn't get into too much trouble. I'm sure he had the best intentions and people can and do make mistakes. But Oleg and co may not see it like that.

[Insuber]

I just hope the poor SOB that leaked the video doesn't get into too much trouble. I'm sure he had the best intentions and people can and do make mistakes. But Oleg and co may not see it like that.

If the bosses were unhappy the video would have been removed within minutes. Luthier instead confirmed 20 minutes later that the video was a genuine SoW one ... ;).

Ins