Neatness worth it?

[Granamyr]

Anyone able to tell me what Level 2 and 3 of this skill are (would be nice if we had that somewhere to reference for all skills). My question is if I want Mind runes, does it make sense to spend so many upgrading this skill when I doubt I will get that many back?

Has anyone run the numbers on this skill....seems useless to anything except a Paladin and maybe not even them. Even though this game has TONS of new items, it still rarely ever gives you any unless you buy them....and gold is more valuable this time around. So the fuel for this skill is somewhat low (on average). In terms of rune acquisition, seems like it would make more sense to buy or trade for them, maybe even if you're a Paladin. If I have a ton of green runes, why waste them on this skill (unless the returns are high when breaking an item) when I could get a 15:8 (I think) return rate on exactly the rune I want when trading.

Name me a class that would actually use Neatness? A warrior wants mind runes and magic runes. I think Level 1 of this skill costs 9 mind runes and 2 magic runes so now I'm 11 runes down. How many items would I have to break (on average) to get those 11 back considering that some of them will be might runes and crystals (which I don't want)? Take the total sale price of those items and I think it makes logical sense to take the money. Maybe if you Save/Reload so that you only get the runes you want, but still that's a lot of items and I don't seem to have gotten that many. It becomes even more absurd if you take the skill past level 1 which is probably what you have to do in order to get runes and not crystals.

Has anyone upgraded it and gotten back a better return than you would have just using the runes directly or what you would have gotten had you traded them?

[Elwin]

Its not worth it, its mainly for crystals not for runes. I maxed at first game and used it a lot but i barely remind any rune gotten from it.

[Zechnophobe]

It is fairly worth it for a Mage actually. You will not likely get more runes out of it than you will spend on it, but you will get a whole lot of crystals. Just the first point of neatness will give you likely 100 extra magic crystals or more. Every see those crappy 500 gold level items, like the straw hat, or basic boots? Buy them and destroy them for 2 crystals (One more than normal). Cheapo level 2 items become 4 crystals, and level 3's are 5 to 6. Otherwise you'd just get one.

It really helps you max out a lot of spells you otherwise would never have the chance to upgrade, and is once again especially useful for a mage who will get level 3 in all schools of magic.

[Granamyr]

I suppose, but it seems like points spent in Alchemy would be better than Neatness and I've never really run into a crystal shortage. At some point, you get into a routine of which spells are really worth it and that list is pretty small.

I'd say Neatness is one of the worst skills in the game and am rather irritated they used it to replace the "Sell for more" skill from KBTL.

Skills like Neatness on the mind tree, undead buff skill in the warrior tree and <insert worthless magic skill> on the magic tree should be at the bottom so we don't have to get them as pre-reqs.

[DGDobrev]

I beg to differ about Dark Commander. The Undead can make a pretty powerful army. As such, some extra attack and initiative doesn't hurt at all :)

I can say this for a fact, because right now I'm doing a playthrough for fun, just to check them out. Army composition is Black Knights, 2 types of vampires, Necromancers and Tirexes (sacrificial lambs) and Demonologists + Skel Archers in reserve.

Still, I also dislike neatness. As a paladin, I may take it over alchemy, because alchemy simply reduces crystal count needed for spells. Neatness at least adds a few mana points :) As a Warrior and as a Mage, I too find it kinda useless. I'd rather pump Absolute balance than Neatness with these classes. Besides, I don't recall destroying items in any of my playthroughs.

[Zechnophobe]

Besides, I don't recall destroying items in any of my playthroughs.

Probably because you didn't have neatness!

It is one of those scenarios where you are 'used' to getting by with only the spells you can afford to upgrade, and not upgrading the marginal ones because it won't be worth it in the long wrong. Neatness + Alchemy let's you upgrade those extra spells as well.

[DGDobrev]

I had it in only 1 game - in my game with paladin on impossible. I forgot to post the build, but it was there. I never found much use of it... You get only a few runes, that will either make or don't make the difference.

As for the crystals, the fighter classes will find little use of them, as their troops are the ones that actually do the fighting, and the best the warrior or a paladin can do is to buff. As for mages, alchemy is more than enough in my opinion.

In any case, I do agree that the skill has its uses.