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ECV56_Guevara
10-20-2009, 11:49 AM
A more complicated choice for those who are abot to buy a new Hotas...
Saitek released the X 65
http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x65f.htm

Tvrdi
10-20-2009, 12:27 PM
A more complicated choice for those who are abot to buy a new Hotas...
Saitek released the X 65
http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x65f.htm

not really, its too expensive and force sensing thing is a NO GO good for WW2 sims.....anyway I hope well get some feedback from first owners...

PS: and now we have two gayish annoyin pinkie switches

Feuerfalke
10-20-2009, 12:38 PM
It looked very nice on the first glance, but the stick is non-movable: It's force-sensitive.

But even with the F-16 designers noticed that pilots wanted moving sticks to have a feeling of what input they give to the controls, so I can't understand why you make a fixed stick for homeusers as a general design. :rolleyes:

Thrustmaster is also releasing a new stick - it's a replique of the A-10 HOTAS. That's basically all info available, not even if it's designed after A-10A or A-10C, but it definitely sounds more promising than the X65f

HFC_Dolphin
10-20-2009, 01:05 PM
We only need a good throttle to put it next to our CH Fighterstick :-)
A CH throttle with rotaries :P

Feuerfalke
10-20-2009, 01:19 PM
Maybe CH will pull even and release a new throttle as well? :grin:

Thrustmaster will have an easy job, though. If they modell the HOTAS after the A-10C, they can keep the Cougar's stick and modify the old twin-throttle ;)

Lucas_From_Hell
10-20-2009, 01:59 PM
I couldn't understand AT ALL how this force sensing system works.

Anyone here can name some aircraft that have this? If by "modern" they mean the F-35 and F-22, maybe they're right.

Something I didn't liked: the design. Will Saitek ever release something that actually looks like a real aircraft's stick?

Going a bit offtopic, if anyone ever releases a joystick replicating any MiG or Sukhoi stick, I would buy it. After a quick but exciting ride on the Su-30 simulator, I just loved that joystick. It takes a short while to get used to it, but after that, I fell in love with it :-P!

It has only everything on it. For those who don't have any idea about what I'm talking about, check this pic:

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/4307/mig29smtcockpitrq7.jpg

And one big positive point (for me at least) on most Russian sticks: trim on the joystick. No rotaries or anything like that. It's much more practical (and improves your response) to set it with your thumb. You make it much quicker than when you have to use any rotary or something like that. You don't have to get your hands out of the throttle or the stick, just move the thumb and it's done.

Feuerfalke
10-20-2009, 02:24 PM
The F-16C had such a rigid stick. It didn't move at all.

Funny enough when the Thrustmaster Cougar was released a lot of people ranted the stick moved, while the original was static and you can indeed buy a mod which replaces the gimbals with a system that only senses the forces on the stick, but renders the stick itself immobile. Realistic for the F-16, but there are only a handful of planes using this method.

As posted above, the pilots didn't like it for the little feel.

nearmiss
10-20-2009, 03:26 PM
My CH Fighterstick has a heft and feel of a quality product. It is like flying a Boeing 727 after flying prop planes. There is just a smoothness about it that reminds you of flying quality aircraft.

Yeah, I know it has that bump kinda thing on the diagonal crossover, but you don't notice when you're using it.

I now have a hotas that is pretty awesome. Finally, got enough $ together to own.. Fighterstick, Prothrottle,propedals and an MFP.

My old stick, MSFT FF2, has been acclaimed over an over as the best stick. It cannot be compared to the Fighterstick. FS has no twist rudder handle or ForceFeedback. I don't miss the Forcefeedback a bit, because the stick has an excellent feel once you get it configured well.

I think it might be worth noting. The single sticks and hyped hotas things available now are probably a reasonable approach to virtual flying. IF you fly the hud, or basically aren't really into virtual flying that much... just shooting at stuff.

I read and re-read all the information and reviews on hotas arrangements over the years, and piece by piece I finally got it all. I don't even regret my decisions and that's good because my six month old Razer keyboard from MSFT now has about 10 unreadable letters on the keyboard. The stupid keys are white and painted with black to leave out the letters on the white keys for the lights to shine through. It is less than a year old.

Thank you very much, but with the quality of Chproducts I don't even regret my purchases. Then of course I don't have all the tricked out lights and little screeny things to rejuventate me either.

Lucas_From_Hell
10-20-2009, 06:09 PM
The stick doesn't move at all?! Who was the drunken son of a ***** who had this idea?

I just can't imagine myself pushing the joystick and seeing that... well, it isn't really moving.

But a question here: how much does it costs, anyway?

Tvrdi
10-20-2009, 06:21 PM
500 bucks


for that money I can buy CH HOTAS and Saitek pedals...and I can go out and buy some beer

mazex
10-20-2009, 07:25 PM
It looked very nice on the first glance, but the stick is non-movable: It's force-sensitive.

But even with the F-16 designers noticed that pilots wanted moving sticks to have a feeling of what input they give to the controls, so I can't understand why you make a fixed stick for homeusers as a general design. :rolleyes:

Thrustmaster is also releasing a new stick - it's a replique of the A-10 HOTAS. That's basically all info available, not even if it's designed after A-10A or A-10C, but it definitely sounds more promising than the X65f

I sure agree, the force sensing seems like a real weird descision. Sat in an F-16 (Block 52) once and the stick sure moved a bit unlike the early models with stiff sticks that where not too popular among the pilots... Why copy that misstake?

Lucas_From_Hell
10-20-2009, 07:31 PM
I sure agree, the force sensing seems like a real weird descision. Sat in an F-16 (Block 52) once and the stick sure moved a bit unlike the early models with stiff sticks that where not too popular among the pilots... Why copy that misstake?

Don't worry, when they launch the X65F Block 52, it will be fixed. So, if the F-16 was introduced in 78, and we are in 2009... Ok, so we should wait only 31 years. So, meanwhile, I'm going to study for the test to the Brazillian Air Force Academy. If anything change in these 31 years, send me a PM, but I think October 10th 2040 I'll be busy the whole day, but I'm pretty sure October 12th I'll check it :rolleyes:

Feuerfalke
10-20-2009, 07:54 PM
I sure agree, the force sensing seems like a real weird descision. Sat in an F-16 (Block 52) once and the stick sure moved a bit unlike the early models with stiff sticks that where not too popular among the pilots... Why copy that misstake?

I have no idea.

Saitek even made some surveys to find out what simulation fans were looking for - I honestly doubt the community demanded a force-sensitive stick in favour of e.g. a force-feedback stick.

Well, no matter why they copied the mistake, from the customers and simulation-fans point of view, I'm glad the simulation genre get's so much attention again, that all main joystick-manufacturers developed new HOTAS.
I hope CH will pull even - hopefully with a twin-throttle and some rotaries ;)

blottogg
10-21-2009, 03:52 AM
It's true that the first versions (Block 1, and maybe Block 5) of the F-16 had a side-stick that didn't move. I never flew them, but some of the pilot reports I read said that some guys were straining their forearms trying not to over-control. The solution General Dynamics introduced was to basically mount the stick in rubber bushings or washers, that allowed the stick to move a little bit (something I'd bet you could easily do to the X65 as well). The force tranducers were the same in both versions AFAIK, and provided full control input at 25 lb. of force. I was a little worried about adapting to the force sensing side-stick coming from the T-38, but after a couple of sims, my first flight was a non-event, at least from a flight control standpoint. The X65's twist rudder isn't something I'd like, but presumably you can lock it out and use pedals, like you can with the X52.

Saitek is braving new ground, at least for the brand-name manufacturers, but there are a couple of plusses. Without pots, there's nothing to wear out, and depending on what transducers they use and how they're calibrated, the X65 could be more accurate than the X52 with Hall sensors. "Modding" an X65 to move a bit like later Blocks of F-16 would (in theory at least) be a lot easier (and cheaper) than implementing the mod kits out there to convert the Cougar to a non-moving force-sensing stick. I know Viper_2005 has done this to his Cougar and likes it. FWIW, I think the X65 is based on the F-22 stick and throttle, and not on a unique layout like their earlier sticks.

The force-feedback Logitech G940 looks interesting, too. The F-16 didn't have any force-feedback obviously, and I never felt deprived for its lack. Then again, I had seat-of-the-pants feedback, and didn't have to worry about pre-stall buffet, either. Financially challenged as I am, I'm still using my X52 for as long as it holds out. It's good to see the manufacturers continuing to develop new products though.

Has anybody actually bought one of these things yet, or at least seen a review? I'd be curious to hear some hands-on reporting, especially since I doubt I'll be able to try one of these out at the local Best Buy anytime soon.

Tvrdi
10-21-2009, 10:06 AM
thers always something to brake in saitek sticks......

and to buy a 500 bucks HOTAS just to mess with serious MODS and to avoid warranty.....ohh

=815=TooCooL
10-21-2009, 04:27 PM
For Falcon flyer, this is a good go but certainly no go for ww2 plane flyers.

Didn't know falcon4 fans are still that many for this kind of product to come out.

Aviar
10-21-2009, 05:28 PM
I'm afraid the title of this thread is a little misleading. The X65F has not been released yet.

Aviar