CrankyBulletcup
10-05-2009, 10:20 PM
When you told me that the Germans never added machine guns/cannons to the wings of the 109's, then you must not of done your research so here is my research read and cry:
Armament and gondola cannons
Reflecting Messerschmitt's belief in low-weight, low-drag, simple monoplanes, the armament was placed in the fuselage: two synchronized machine guns, just as in a typical biplane fighter like the Albatros D.Va, were mounted in the cowling, firing over the top of the engine and through the propeller arc. As an alternative, a single high-performance cannon (or 'shell-gun', as sometimes referred in the 1930s) firing through the cylinder banks through a blast tube, with the engine buffering the recoil was considered from the start.[9] This was also the choice of armament layout on some contemporary French monoplane fighters, such as the Dewoitine D.520.[Notes 4] Conforming to Prof. Messerschmitt's ethos, this kept his gun-free wings very thin and lightweight.
When it was discovered in 1937 that the RAF was planning eight-gun batteries for its new monoplane fighters - the Hawker Hurricane and Supermarine Spitfire) - it became clear the Bf 109 would need to carry more weaponry; a new wing was designed to carry machine guns, and later, 20 mm MG FF cannon configurations. The problem was that when it came to fitting additional armament, the only place in which it could be located was in the wings. However, the positions of the undercarriage bays, main spar and wing slats meant that room was limited to two bays between the undercarriage and slats. There was room for only one weapon per wing, either a 7.92 mm MG 17 machine gun, or a 20 mm MG FF or MG FF/M cannon. The first version of the 109 to have wing guns was the C-1, which had one MG 17 per wing fitted in the inner bays. To avoid redesigning the wing to accommodate large ammunition boxes and access hatches, an unusual ammunition feed was devised whereby a continuous belt holding 500 rounds was fed along chutes out to the wing tips. The belt was fed around a roller and back along the wing, forward and beneath the gun breech, to the wing root where it was fed around another roller and back to the weapon. The gun barrels were buried in long, large diameter tubes between the spar and the leading edge. These tubes channelled cooling air around the barrels and breeches and out of a slot at the rear of the wing diaphragm and top of the flap. Room was still so restricted that parts of the MG 17's breech mechanism poked into an accommodating hole in the flap structure. The much longer and heavier MG FF had to be mounted in the outer bay. A large hole was cut through the spar webbing to allow the cannon to be fitted with an ammunition feed forward of the spar, with the rear breech block projecting through the spar. The 60-round ammunition drum was placed in the machine-gun compartment; a small hatch incorporating a blister was needed in the wing lower surface to allow access to change the drum. The entire weapon could be removed for servicing by removing a leading edge panel.
From the 109F-series onwards, guns were no longer carried inside the wings – a noteworthy exception was Adolf Galland's field-modified Bf 109 F-2, which had a 20 mm MG FF/M installed internally in each wing. Only some of the late 109K-series models, such as the K-6, were planned to carry 30 mm (1.18 in) MK 108 cannons in the wings.
In place of internal wing armament, additional firepower was provided through a pair of 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons in conformal gun pods, installed under the wings. Although the additional armament increased the fighter's potency as a bomber destroyer, it had an adverse affect on the handling qualities, reducing its competence in fighter-versus-fighter combat and accentuating the tendency of the fighter to swing pendulum-fashion in flight. The conformal gun pods, without ammunition, weighed 135 kg (298 lb); and 135 to 145 rounds were provided per gun. The total weight, including ammunition, was 215 kg. Installation of the underwing gun pods was a simple task that could be quickly performed by the unit's armourers, and imposed a reduction of speed of only 8 km/h (5 mph). By comparison, the installed weight of a similar armament of two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon inside the wings of the FW 190A-4/U8 was 130 kg (287 lb), without ammunition.
Now there is your answer so don't ever dought my knowledge of German planes again!:lol:
www.wikipedia.com
Armament and gondola cannons
Reflecting Messerschmitt's belief in low-weight, low-drag, simple monoplanes, the armament was placed in the fuselage: two synchronized machine guns, just as in a typical biplane fighter like the Albatros D.Va, were mounted in the cowling, firing over the top of the engine and through the propeller arc. As an alternative, a single high-performance cannon (or 'shell-gun', as sometimes referred in the 1930s) firing through the cylinder banks through a blast tube, with the engine buffering the recoil was considered from the start.[9] This was also the choice of armament layout on some contemporary French monoplane fighters, such as the Dewoitine D.520.[Notes 4] Conforming to Prof. Messerschmitt's ethos, this kept his gun-free wings very thin and lightweight.
When it was discovered in 1937 that the RAF was planning eight-gun batteries for its new monoplane fighters - the Hawker Hurricane and Supermarine Spitfire) - it became clear the Bf 109 would need to carry more weaponry; a new wing was designed to carry machine guns, and later, 20 mm MG FF cannon configurations. The problem was that when it came to fitting additional armament, the only place in which it could be located was in the wings. However, the positions of the undercarriage bays, main spar and wing slats meant that room was limited to two bays between the undercarriage and slats. There was room for only one weapon per wing, either a 7.92 mm MG 17 machine gun, or a 20 mm MG FF or MG FF/M cannon. The first version of the 109 to have wing guns was the C-1, which had one MG 17 per wing fitted in the inner bays. To avoid redesigning the wing to accommodate large ammunition boxes and access hatches, an unusual ammunition feed was devised whereby a continuous belt holding 500 rounds was fed along chutes out to the wing tips. The belt was fed around a roller and back along the wing, forward and beneath the gun breech, to the wing root where it was fed around another roller and back to the weapon. The gun barrels were buried in long, large diameter tubes between the spar and the leading edge. These tubes channelled cooling air around the barrels and breeches and out of a slot at the rear of the wing diaphragm and top of the flap. Room was still so restricted that parts of the MG 17's breech mechanism poked into an accommodating hole in the flap structure. The much longer and heavier MG FF had to be mounted in the outer bay. A large hole was cut through the spar webbing to allow the cannon to be fitted with an ammunition feed forward of the spar, with the rear breech block projecting through the spar. The 60-round ammunition drum was placed in the machine-gun compartment; a small hatch incorporating a blister was needed in the wing lower surface to allow access to change the drum. The entire weapon could be removed for servicing by removing a leading edge panel.
From the 109F-series onwards, guns were no longer carried inside the wings – a noteworthy exception was Adolf Galland's field-modified Bf 109 F-2, which had a 20 mm MG FF/M installed internally in each wing. Only some of the late 109K-series models, such as the K-6, were planned to carry 30 mm (1.18 in) MK 108 cannons in the wings.
In place of internal wing armament, additional firepower was provided through a pair of 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons in conformal gun pods, installed under the wings. Although the additional armament increased the fighter's potency as a bomber destroyer, it had an adverse affect on the handling qualities, reducing its competence in fighter-versus-fighter combat and accentuating the tendency of the fighter to swing pendulum-fashion in flight. The conformal gun pods, without ammunition, weighed 135 kg (298 lb); and 135 to 145 rounds were provided per gun. The total weight, including ammunition, was 215 kg. Installation of the underwing gun pods was a simple task that could be quickly performed by the unit's armourers, and imposed a reduction of speed of only 8 km/h (5 mph). By comparison, the installed weight of a similar armament of two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon inside the wings of the FW 190A-4/U8 was 130 kg (287 lb), without ammunition.
Now there is your answer so don't ever dought my knowledge of German planes again!:lol:
www.wikipedia.com