russian anti tank dogs!!!!!

[dazz1971]

This is no bull!! im watching chris barrie massive machines this episode is about tanks this has just been on it

the russians trained dogs to look for food under tanks then they strapped explosive to them and released them when the german tanks arrived BUT......

they were trained to look under russian tanks for food and unfortunatly they could tell the difference and ran under russian tanks instead !!!

[Steyr_amr]

Yeah who'd have thought Fido could tell the difference between a Panzer IV and a T-34?

I remember reading somewhere that in Medieval times if an army was fielding war elephants the opposing army would cover pigs in grease and set them on fire. Apparantly elephants were scared of pink fiery sqeauling things running around.

There's also been bat bombs, mine hunting dolphins and ninja cattle.

[House MD 221B]

yeah there was a little vertical trigger stick on the dogs backpack, and when the dog went under the tank it bent the switch and exploded. When they released them and they saw what they were doing, the troops were frantically shooting the dogs trying to save their tanks.

Pavlov Pavlova :D

http://civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/afk22.jpg http://civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/anti-tank_dog_10_of_172-300x225.jpg

[Araqiel]

Yeah, nobody thought that maybe the dogs who were used to the sounds and smells of familiar Soviet tanks in relatively peaceful conditions, wouldn't be so keen to run under the German tanks in the midst of an armoured column ambush. There was also the issue that stray dogs in the region were reported through German military channels to be rabid, and were therefore shot on sight. As a result there were very few dogs left on the Eastern front before long anyway.

[JoNnY AnDrEwS]

This was also shown on WW2: The apocolypse the other night.

[Voyager]

Yeah who'd have thought Fido could tell the difference between a Panzer IV and a T-34?

I remember reading somewhere that in Medieval times if an army was fielding war elephants the opposing army would cover pigs in grease and set them on fire. Apparantly elephants were scared of pink fiery sqeauling things running around.

There's also been bat bombs, mine hunting dolphins and ninja cattle.

I believe it was pitch, actually. And like the dogs, the pigs could sometimes get going the wrong way, and then you have 200lbs of flaming panic crashing through your lines. Not good.

I used to live in an area where we had a feral pig problem. You had to be real careful driving in the country, because if you hit one of those things at freeway speeds, it'll flip the car. Pigs may be short, but they're built like little tanks.

[mattmanB182]

What a terrible thing to do. I know many nations used animals in the war, but still im glad it backfired on them.

[TRC Subaru]

What a terrible thing to do. I know many nations used animals in the war, but still im glad it backfired on them.

I hope the people who thought this up and implemented this died a slow and horrible death…something like being eaten alive by the very dogs they tried to kill…now that would be poetic justice….

[fuzzychickens]

What a terrible thing to do. I know many nations used animals in the war, but still im glad it backfired on them.

Still better than human suicide bombers.

Just like medicine advances made through experiments on animals is preferrable to those done on humans.

In life, you are many times forced to pick the lesser of two evils.

[mattmanB182]

Still better than human suicide bombers.

Just like medicine advances made through experiments on animals is preferrable to those done on humans.

In life, you are many times forced to pick the lesser of two evils.

Well I think they got what they deserved when the dogs went after their own tanks. Hopefully it did some true damage to them.

The cowards should have strapped bombs to themselves and went under the German tanks, since they were so desperate to blow them up.

Well God/Karma taught them a lesson anyway when it backfired.

[House MD 221B]

I think no-one gets to judge war, or the acts within war unless they were there.

no one can comprehend or condemn any act of war unless they were the ones who had to act it or choose it.

Its a madness were unfortunately morals and rights get compromised. For example, you can't say that using dogs is wrong, but the government permitted murder of millions one soldier at a time is any more or less wrong.

its unfortunately all equal. Its madness, its unfortunate, its immoral, and its inconceivable. Which is why we don't get to pass judgement, it happened we have to accept it and learn from it. But we don't get to judge it.

Almost every nation has done something reprehensible throughout the course of history. I could list things but can't be bothered as it's not relevant. the point is, humans always have done horrific things to each other and things around them, and we always will.

[mattmanB182]

I think no-one gets to judge war, or the acts within war unless they were there.

no one can comprehend or condemn any act of war unless they were the ones who had to act it or choose it.

Its a madness were unfortunately morals and rights get compromised. For example, you can't say that using dogs is wrong, but the government permitted murder of millions one soldier at a time is any more or less wrong.

its unfortunately all equal. Its madness, its unfortunate, its immoral, and its inconceivable. Which is why we don't get to pass judgement, it happened we have to accept it and learn from it. But we don't get to judge it.

Almost every nation has done something reprehensible throughout the course of history. I could list things but can't be bothered as it's not relevant. the point is, humans always have done horrific things to each other and things around them, and we always will.

Your statement may be true, but it seems as though you are making excuses for them. You seem to come from the standpoint that its ok to do whatever you want since it is war. Are you saying we cant judge modern day suicide bombers?

I am simply speaking on behalf of these murderd animals. Animals are more pure than humans anyway.

I am simply saying I am glad it failed for these people. And I still stand by every single statement I have made in this thread.

[House MD 221B]

I make no excuses for anyone's behaviour, hence the inclusion of the word "reprehensible", however it is history, and therefore not changeable, you may disagree with what they did, but they were different times, different attitudes, and in the circumstance they were under you don't get to judge.

Because your opinion, however valid in today's times, is neither relevant, or valid for those times.

Also modern day suicide bombers are different in two ways... 1) they are modern e.g. different times, different attitudes, and also not technically in a state of war.

and 2) Terrorism is not the same as a large scale global military conflict sanctioned legally by the government. Hence the Geneva convention dictating human rights during a time of war and the clear description of what is and is not a war crime.

There are a few books which I think you might find interesting :

1) Slaughter House Five by Kurt Vonnegut
and
2) The Wars - by Timothy Findley

[dazz1971]

i can see where house is coming from many many evil act were commited in the name of war .

i am not condoneing what they did but i can see there reasoning behind it ..
dont forget what the german army/tanks were doing to innocent civillians in russia

put it this way you best mates your family members are getting slaughtered around you the village the german tanks are heading to happens to be your home where you WIFE AND CHILDREN ARE hiding and the only option open to u was to do the same i think you would ???
i know i would and im an animal lover i cant even watch programmes like animal rescue becuse i get so ANGRY at the way ppl treat animals i feel like smashing the tv but war is war and normality doesnt apply you do what you have to do to protect your loved ones ....

[fuzzychickens]

Your statement may be true, but it seems as though you are making excuses for them. You seem to come from the standpoint that its ok to do whatever you want since it is war. Are you saying we cant judge modern day suicide bombers?

I am simply speaking on behalf of these murderd animals. Animals are more pure than humans anyway.

I am simply saying I am glad it failed for these people. And I still stand by every single statement I have made in this thread.

Animals are more pure? I guess that makes rocks even more pure than animals by extension?

Most animals lack the developed cortex for higher thought and thus do not attach any sense of right or wrong to any of their actions. So when an alligator kills someone's only child and causes tremedous emotional trauma to the family - the alligator sees no difference between that act and killing a pitbull that was about to attack the only child. It was hungry and grabs whatever is convienent.

Purity would be more like understanding the impact of all your actions and ALWAYS choosing to act in a way that benefits those around you - even to your detriment - altruism.

Animals generally do not do this. They are simply ignorant, not pure. There are examples of altruistic biological phenomenoms in the animal kingdom - but these are generally evolutionary mechanisms, not concious efforts by individual animals.

People can choose to be "evil" or "good" in general, animals generally do not get beyond figuring out how to eat, sleep, and procreate.

[Araqiel]

The cowards should have strapped bombs to themselves and went under the German tanks, since they were so desperate to blow them up.


You should check out some of the Japanese anti-tank weapons... >_>

[House MD 221B]

Originally Posted by mattmanB182 The cowards should have strapped bombs to themselves and went under the German tanks, since they were so desperate to blow them up.
You should check out some of the Japanese anti-tank weapons... >_>


lol cowards... you wanna' run at a tank? douche bag.


and I'd love to see what your leading statement about Japanese AT methods are if you have any more information or pictures. In the words of G.I. Joe... knowing is half the battle! ;)

Oh and on the animal front... they also have no symbolic memory, and therefore are not capable of attributing methods or logical reasoning towards actions, they very much live in the moment and do not ascribe any form of judgement to and action or event.

[Araqiel]

Originally Posted by mattmanB182 The cowards should have strapped bombs to themselves and went under the German tanks, since they were so desperate to blow them up.



lol cowards... you wanna' run at a tank? douche bag.


and I'd love to see what your leading statement about Japanese AT methods are if you have any more information or pictures. In the words of G.I. Joe... knowing is half the battle! ;)

To start with the most basic they used backpacks loaded with explosives, functionally similar to satchel charges except they were worn on the back of an infantryman who would conceal himself until the tank was in range, and then dive under it, detonating the charge by pulling a cord. They would also dig foxholes in the middle of the road, mostly during the Burmese campaign, where troops would hide with explosives which they would detonate when a tank passed over them. These men were not issued sidearms, and there are reports of them being overrun by Allied forces and standing to die rather than use the explosives to defend themselves - presumably because they had been instructed that these explosives were only to be used for the vital effort of destroying enemy armour. Type 93 anti-tank mines were also mounted on poles and thrust under the track of an oncoming tank by hand; bad for the tank, and the guy on the other end of the stick.

[House MD 221B]

To start with the most basic they used backpacks loaded with explosives, functionally similar to satchel charges except they were worn on the back of an infantryman who would conceal himself until the tank was in range, and then dive under it, detonating the charge by pulling a cord. They would also dig foxholes in the middle of the road, mostly during the Burmese campaign, where troops would hide with explosives which they would detonate when a tank passed over them. These men were not issued sidearms, and there are reports of them being overrun by Allied forces and standing to die rather than use the explosives to defend themselves - presumably because they had been instructed that these explosives were only to be used for the vital effort of destroying enemy armour. Type 93 anti-tank mines were also mounted on poles and thrust under the track of an oncoming tank by hand; bad for the tank, and the guy on the other end of the stick.

Christ, desperate times, desperate measures. The psychological issues behind it must be mind blowing. knowing your sole purpose is to sit in a hole, wait for a tank, and die. job done. mission complete. just crazy.

They could have used timed charges surely? or fused charges, or did they not have the availability? I know some armies have used prisoners for these purposes in the past. Was that the case here or were they regular conscripted citizens?

[Reddisback]

Useing animals to fight in a war is the lowest form a fighting! it has to be.
I know that the Russian send Lyka ( pronouncion???) to space to see if Humans could life there? i know that the American Goverment (who else?) trained Dolphins to find Bombs.
I know that soldiers will do hearbreaknig things to each other, and sometime even had to do to Animals. but, as my Grandfather pointed out real seriously, Killing animals is Wrong and that's a crime. He once had to shoot a Horse with his Side arm to kill a Horse because the Horse was bleeding to dead and was litteratly crying! ---- thank God we have orginizations such as the HSPC (animal PLanet) who protect animals from the worse kind of sittuations.

Killing each other is one thing, but animals? uh-uh, that's a No,no.

[dazz1971]

fLIPPIN HECK!!! im so glad im not a japanese solider during the war :eek:


but then again you have to look at there beliefs...
To die in battle serving your emperor was the most honourable death there was.
This stems way back to the ancient japan, look at the samurai if he lost his honor the only way to save there dignity was by seppuku..
the only way the samurai could die more honourable was to die in battle by a sword !!

so id guess that the japanese soliders didnt quite see it as suicide but more of an honor :eek:

[fuzzychickens]

Useing animals to fight in a war is the lowest form a fighting! it has to be.
I know that the Russian send Lyka ( pronouncion???) to space to see if Humans could life there? i know that the American Goverment (who else?) trained Dolphins to find Bombs.
I know that soldiers will do hearbreaknig things to each other, and sometime even had to do to Animals. but, as my Grandfather pointed out real seriously, Killing animals is Wrong and that's a crime. He once had to shoot a Horse with his Side arm to kill a Horse because the Horse was bleeding to dead and was litteratly crying! ---- thank God we have orginizations such as the HSPC (animal PLanet) who protect animals from the worse kind of sittuations.

Killing each other is one thing, but animals? uh-uh, that's a No,no.

To me, all the effort to improve life for animals is disturbing in the face of human suffering.

We can get organized enough to have cats and dogs neutured so that they don't overpopulate and suffer. Yet humans are the ones who need saving. They need birth control. Our population growth is out of control.

In countries where the geography won't support the population already there, the Pope likes to travel there and teach them how birth control is evil. So babies are made, AIDS spreads, and everyone suffers. The Pope is somehow a decent person for encouraging this stupidty and suffering.

And we in America send TONS of food aid to countries like these - which just encourages them to have a population that can't be supported.

But be damned, if you even think about not neutering your dogs and cats or if you leave out food scraps for feral animals - you are a horrible person.

We can make the hard choices that have to be made for animal welfare, but we don't have the balls to do the same for ourselves.

[House MD 221B]

To me, all the effort to improve life for animals is disturbing in the face of human suffering.

We can get organized enough to have cats and dogs neutured so that they don't overpopulate and suffer. Yet humans are the ones who need saving. They need birth control. Our population growth is out of control.

In countries where the geography won't support the population already there, the Pope likes to travel there and teach them how birth control is evil. So babies are made, AIDS spreads, and everyone suffers. The Pope is somehow a decent person for encouraging this stupidty and suffering.

And we in America send TONS of food aid to countries like these - which just encourages them to have a population that can't be supported.

But be damned, if you even think about not neutering your dogs and cats or if you leave out food scraps for feral animals - you are a horrible person.

We can make the hard choices that have to be made for animal welfare, but we don't have the balls to do the same for ourselves.

oh my god don't even get me started on these topics. Far too many people on this planet. And as for giving to any charity, I would rather my hard earned cash didn't go to corrupt governments syphoning aid as it arrives in their country. And why not add something inflammatory... who would I be if I didn't... Religion is responsible for most of the world's woes.

[Ancient Seraph]

Nice 'The whole world is messed up!!' vibe going on here.

[House MD 221B]

I've cracked out the Gordon's Gin and Nytol...... Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer dooo.....

[Ancient Seraph]

I've cracked out the Gordon's Gin and Nytol...... Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer dooo.....

I'm guessing I'm too young for this :rolleyes: (no offense obv).

[House MD 221B]

I'm guessing I'm too young for this :rolleyes: (no offense obv).

Damnit I'm only 25!!!! lol It's a Space Odyssey 2001 reference. Hal9000 the psychotic ship's computer sings it as he dies.

I can't let you do that Dave!

[Ancient Seraph]

Damnit I'm only 25!!!! lol It's a Space Odyssey 2001 reference. Hal9000 the psychotic ship's computer sings it as he dies.

My bad :rolleyes:. Never got to watching that movie.. heard it's quite good though. I'll watch it someday soon.

[mattmanB182]

oh my god don't even get me started on these topics. Far too many people on this planet. And as for giving to any charity, I would rather my hard earned cash didn't go to corrupt governments syphoning aid as it arrives in their country. And why not add something inflammatory... who would I be if I didn't... Religion is responsible for most of the world's woes.

So the answer to the world problems is to destroy all religion, become a world anarchy, and every man for himself?

Since you decided to pick apart all of my comments, I figured I would simply ask you to clarify yours. Since your the all knowing being on this board.

[Zatoichi_Sanjuro]

http://img7.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/4660/46602577311d009ffaa6e254de4d7ea938f8b7f.jpg

[dazz1971]

http://img7.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/4660/46602577311d009ffaa6e254de4d7ea938f8b7f.jpg

well at least they had the decency to give them gas masks

[mattmanB182]

I was going to say the same thing. And as far as I can see, there are no bombs strapped to them.

[X_SKI_X]

I was going to say the same thing. And as far as I can see, there are no bombs strapped to them.

Alright, this ridiculousness needs a reality check. Has anyone noticed that most of the people that posted "ohmygawd those poor things. Evil EVIL russians and their cowardly ways" have german pilots/planes in their sigs? I sure have...

You know what, give me a tank coming my way and I will gladly strap on a c4 pack onto Fido myself. You do what you need to do to survive and preserve human lives.

I just don't understand how some of you can't see your own hypocrisy. You glorify nazi germany in your sigs.... (I'm not gonna touch on what levels of brutality and crimes were committed by it)... but you bash a war tactic that, in theory, would preserve human lives over a dog's life.

You make me sick

[mattmanB182]

Alright, this ridiculousness needs a reality check. Has anyone noticed that most of the people that posted "ohmygawd those poor things. Evil EVIL russians and their cowardly ways" have german pilots/planes in their sigs? I sure have...

You know what, give me a tank coming my way and I will gladly strap on a c4 pack onto Fido myself. You do what you need to do to survive and preserve human lives.

I just don't understand how some of you can't see your own hypocrisy. You glorify nazi germany in your sigs.... (I'm not gonna touch on what levels of brutality and crimes were committed by it)... but you bash a war tactic that, in theory, would preserve human lives over a dog's life.

You make me sick

So every single German soldier was a nazi? If ignorance is bliss, you must be in utopia. Your ignorant generalizations make me sick.
Maybe this thread should just be locked. Its causing nothing but arguments with people who would normally get along.

[X_SKI_X]

So every single German soldier was a nazi? If ignorance is bliss, you must be in utopia. Your ignorant generalizations make me sick.
Maybe this thread should just be locked. Its causing nothing but arguments with people who would normally get along.

Fair enough, then using the same logic you believe that every russian soldier supported using suicide dogs? Specifically when you said this:

"Well I think they got what they deserved when the dogs went after their own tanks. Hopefully it did some true damage to them.

The cowards should have strapped bombs to themselves and went under the German tanks, since they were so desperate to blow them up.

Well God/Karma taught them a lesson anyway when it backfired. "

We could do this all day, its a never ending cycle. Bottom line is I think its crazy you're judging a people by a tactic and you think I'm crazy for judging a person by its people.

Yeah... you might as well lock this :D

[dazz1971]

i agree :(
Please can a mod lock this thread before it gets out of hand in hindsight i should never of mentioned it at all and the last thing i want to do is cause another flame war there is plenty of that on these forums as it is

[beaker126]

Before this gets locked I'd like to point out that the photo is probably from WWI, based on the style of the helmet, as well as the gas mask.