Insult.

[Werner Molders]

Why is the Spitfire MK II vs a Bf 109 E-3?

The Spit II is clearly superior because it is a highly developed and rarely used aircraft used AFTER the battle of britain. Only a few squadrons in england had it.

IF THIS PLANE IS USED WHY IS THERE NO BF 109 E-7 ?????

THE MARK II SPITFIRE IS THE EQUAL TO THE BF 109 E-7
THE MARK IA SPITFIRE IS THE EQUAL TO THE BF 109 E-4
THE MARK I SPITFIRE IS THE EQUAL TO THE BF 109 E-3

DO SOME RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT OLEG BEFORE I SUE YOUR COMPANY. THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

THIS IS TAKING THE ****

SORT IT OUT MADDOX. THIS PLANE SET A JOKE FOR SPITFIRE FANS TO LAUGH ABOUT.

[CrankyBulletcup]

No kidding I just wish this company did more research then just making the game look good cause I would like to see all of the varients of the planes, so then people can make certain air battles if they wish. And good luck with the suing cause you are going to need it. LOL

[fuzzychickens]

Historical accuracy = good point
lawsuit over said lack of historical accuracy = delusional fantasy

[Ancient Seraph]

SORT IT OUT MADDOX. THIS PLANE SET A JOKE FOR SPITFIRE FANS TO LAUGH ABOUT.

My advice: laugh a bit more. It'd do you good I recon. For any sequel suggestions, or others, you can post here (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=8616).

[MorgothNL]

Come one people!
complain about bugs, bad gameplay, not accurate flight models, controls.. but dont get so raged because of this.


DO SOME RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT OLEG BEFORE I SUE YOUR COMPANY. THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

^^ thats just a joke right?:confused: if not... it still is funny

[mattmanB182]

This game does have some glaring flaws. That being said, its the best flight game on any console at the moment.

I am thankful that Anton and the gang took the time to make it. And are taking the time to improve it.


Things are only going to get better.

[CrankyBulletcup]

Come one people!
complain about bugs, bad gameplay, not accurate flight models, controls.. but dont get so raged because of this.


DO SOME RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT OLEG BEFORE I SUE YOUR COMPANY. THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

^^ thats just a joke right?:confused: if not... it still is funny

No kidding MorgothNL, I mean some guy thinks he can sue a game company for not putting something in the game, its not McDonalds and I dont think your overweight.

[HauptmannMolders]

Shameful!!! While I do agree with your comment about this no being a fair match up the suing thing seems a bit much. What would Werner think???

[Werner Molders]

Its quite frankly not a big deal, but im sick of seeing planes always in favour of the Allies.

The Bf 109 had a 7:1 kill ratio

You would never believe it according to this game!!

All im asking for is a little bit of respect on the part of the German side and that seems to be too much for "Oleg's World"

Sorry but this needs to be said, im a pilot myself and i would like some justice here.

This game assumes that the Spitfire was the saviour of the day in the Battle of Britain. It wasnt, it was the Hurricane. No one ever accredits the Hurricane because it wasnt as agile or as fast and as pretty.

The top 100 fighter pilot scorers were all from Germany in World War 2! Does it not possibly occur to anyone that there is a correlation between the fact these pilots all flew Bf 109's throughout most of their careers and the horrendus kill scores!

This is just more "Spitfire is wonderful" bias in a world that believes in propoganda rather than fact. Thats all i stand for passionate flying, historical and accurate. Judge as you will.

[MorgothNL]

if you play online, you see more 109's than spits. So I think many people DO like the 109 more than the spit. And this is your point right? that this spit 'is the plane of choice' because there is no 'good 109'? (sorry if I misunderstood)

[FOZ_1983]

i know its a spit Mk2, and unfortunately it has cannons which it shouldnt really have since it should be a Mk1.

But...

i dont think it flies like a Mk2 in game does it? basically in game its a Mk1 but in a Mk2 airframe, so bar the cannons its pretty much a Mk2 looking Mk1


i could be wrong.

[FOZ_1983]

Its quite frankly not a big deal, but im sick of seeing planes always in favour of the Allies.

The Bf 109 had a 7:1 kill ratio

You would never believe it according to this game!!

All im asking for is a little bit of respect on the part of the German side and that seems to be too much for "Oleg's World"

Sorry but this needs to be said, im a pilot myself and i would like some justice here.

This game assumes that the Spitfire was the saviour of the day in the Battle of Britain. It wasnt, it was the Hurricane. No one ever accredits the Hurricane because it wasnt as agile or as fast and as pretty.

The top 100 fighter pilot scorers were all from Germany in World War 2! Does it not possibly occur to anyone that there is a correlation between the fact these pilots all flew Bf 109's throughout most of their careers and the horrendus kill scores!

This is just more "Spitfire is wonderful" bias in a world that believes in propoganda rather than fact. Thats all i stand for passionate flying, historical and accurate. Judge as you will.

Not been on these forums long eh? ;) lol. I ALWAYS give the hurricane credit for this and i make sure everyone in here knows it to :P

[Ancient Seraph]

As pointed out in this (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=10183) thread very well, it's not the way the game is designed that favors Spits, La's and other turners, but the way it's played. The 109 was made for B&Z, which is relatively uneffective in-game, where most of the battles are turn-based.

[Werner Molders]

Good point, but i noticed the Spitfire II can out-climb and out-dive the Bf 109 E which is not correct (arcade and realistic at least) which is completely false as the Bf 109 E could climb almost a third faster.

Also whenever i try to Boom and Zoom on this game, somehow the plane below can always continue to climb up and hit me and never seem to stall despit im almost vertical in the climb and even with a good half or more kilometre distance.

This is wholly inaccurate. How can i press any any advantage if this is the case, how can anyone. Plus another problem is the fact crashing aircraft are not always recorded as "kills" even if badly damaged means that its even harder to get any kills online, and yet i have been a PC flight simulator gamer (on PC version of IL2 Sturmovik) for 6 years and was damn good at it with 4 or 5 thousand kills, with maybe a third of them online.

[Reknad]

Spitfire fans rant reminds me of twilight fans when i say "Edward cullen is gay"

no offense :P

[King Jareth]

Come one people!
complain about bugs, bad gameplay, not accurate flight models, controls.. but dont get so raged because of this.


DO SOME RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT OLEG BEFORE I SUE YOUR COMPANY. THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

^^ thats just a joke right?:confused: if not... it still is funny

It should be, Oleg Maddox had nothing to do with this game.
YOU DO SOME RESEARCH CAPS LOCK BOY.

[FOZ_1983]

It should be, Oleg Maddox had nothing to do with this game.
YOU DO SOME RESEARCH CAPS LOCK BOY.



i just LOL'd at that!!! i have no idea why i found that so funny.

[Steyr_amr]

I believe the immense kills achieved by Luftwaffe pilots was more to do with operational procedures and tactical considerations than aircraft superiority (note the 109 in my sig, if anything I'm biased TOWARDS to Messerschmitt).

German pilots basically lived at the front and could be fighting every day, but Allied pilots rotated. German aces continued to fly in combat, whereas Allied aces were promoted up the ranks or sent to training camps to share their knowledge with the next batch of nuggets.

Also, the German doctrine, centered around the 'finger four', dictated the leader (which would be the most experienced pilot, so Hartmann, Rall, Nowotny etc.) stalked the kill while the wingman covered him, so these pilots accrued many kills.

Futhermore, many of these aces flew on the eastern front during Operation Barbarossa, where they scored many victories against inexperienced Soviet pilots in often obsolete machinery. (Except of course Marseille, who scored almost all of his against Western Allied aircraft ^_^)

[PantherAttack2]

This is just more "Spitfire is wonderful" bias in a world that believes in propoganda rather than fact. Thats all i stand for passionate flying, historical and accurate. Judge as you will.

To be honest I don't know what you're talking about. What makes you believe that almost everyone in the world thinks Spitfires are wonderful?

EDIT: Hurricanes are always credited as long as me and FOZ 1983 are around. Hurricane FTW!

[PantherAttack2]

Spitfire fans rant reminds me of twilight fans when i say "Edward cullen is gay"

no offense :P

lol :-P

Edward isn't gay... He's just a 100 year old stalker who loves a teenage girl. ;)

[gbtstr]

I agree to a certain extent with the sentiments of the OP (not the law suit part).

They should have a Spit Mk Ia and a Hurricane Mk I in the game to be adversaries of the Bf-109E. And likewise, the Germans should have at least a 109E-4 since that variant was in use with the Luftwaffe at the beginning of the BoB. Also, and I think I've said this before - I know others have - but, performance of the German aircraft seems to be lacking versus the Allied aircraft. From what I know, the Spit and 109 were relatively comparable in most respects, the 109 having the climb rate advantage and the Spit having the leg-up on speed. Hurricanes should be able to out-turn 109s. It should be more of a toss-up with the 109 and Spit. Also, the negative-g cutout on the Merlins of the early Spits and Hurricanes doesn't come into play in the game, as it stands - leaving a primary tactic of Luftwaffe pilots unable to be exploited.

With that said, I find life in the E-3 okay. It could be better, but it ain't bad. In fact I think it has a bit of an advantage against late-war planes, if you can keep your six clear. You're much slower, so people tend to overshoot. You have a competitive roll rate. In some matches, people tend to ignore you and go for the "more dangerous" opponents (G-6, Spit IX, etc.), until they get a wing blown off by your cannons.

For the time being, us 109 pilots will have to soldier on with the gear we've got. All we really need is for the flaps to work in realistic - that'd even the score a bit. And cockpits for better orientation.

[BadByte]

SORT IT OUT MADDOX. THIS PLANE SET A JOKE FOR SPITFIRE FANS TO LAUGH ABOUT.

Reasonably sure Maddox have little to do with BoP's plane selection, think Anton said they simply licensed the IL2 engine from Maddox (too lazy to find and point to the post).

[Marchochias]

Is this guy actually threatening to sue a company, in capital letters, no less, over some stupidly technical difference between aircraft variants?

It doesn't get any more pathetic than this.

[mattmanB182]

Is this guy actually threatening to sue a company, in capital letters, no less, over some stupidly technical difference between aircraft variants?

It doesn't get any more pathetic than this.

Rudeness aside, I do agree with the OP for the most part.

I LOVE the game, but the Spit and 109 should be more even as far as handeling. The 109 COULD turn with the spit but most of the lesser experienced pilots did not push the airframe to its limits.

Also the 109 could actually handle MORE G's than the vaunted Spit because of the fuel injected engine. No worries about it cutting off for lack of fuel.

To be honest, I think the DB 600 series engines are better than the Merlin, they just dont get credit because they were on the losing team. I fear there will always be this bias as far as WW2 flight sims go. :(

[dazz1971]

Right thats it ive checked and checked but there is no p38 in this game !!!!
where is my lawyers phone number ? im gonna sue the crap out of em !!!:):)


lmao op is a joke does he really think he can sue a company becuse they didnt put his fav plane in a game ??? k...jockey;);)

[nudger1964]

but fill me in here then...im no expert on spit verses hurricane...but even i know the hurricane got far more kills that the spitfire in the Battle of britain. ~But, i was under the impression that the hurricane was primarily used to attack bombers, and the spitfire went for the fighters. is that not true? therefore, how would a hurricane fair against a 109 relative to a spitfire?
the only thing ive heard in favour of the hurricane over the spitfire, from veterans, was visabilty for landing, and its abiliity to take damage.

What i remember hearing, again from spitfire veterans, was that the spit was the better aircraft in a dog fight if the pilot was experiance enough to recognise what the aircraft was "saying" to him. that allowed the pilot to push a turn harder and to the absolute limit...knowing that he could read the vibration warnings of imminent stalls, which apparently the 109 just didnt have.

[FOZ_1983]

but fill me in here then...im no expert on spit verses hurricane...but even i know the hurricane got far more kills that the spitfire in the Battle of britain. ~But, i was under the impression that the hurricane was primarily used to attack bombers, and the spitfire went for the fighters. is that not true? therefore, how would a hurricane fair against a 109 relative to a spitfire?
the only thing ive heard in favour of the hurricane over the spitfire, from veterans, was visabilty for landing, and its abiliity to take damage.

What i remember hearing, again from spitfire veterans, was that the spit was the better aircraft in a dog fight if the pilot was experiance enough to recognise what the aircraft was "saying" to him. that allowed the pilot to push a turn harder and to the absolute limit...knowing that he could read the vibration warnings of imminent stalls, which apparently the 109 just didnt have.

The idea was for the hurricanes to attack bombers, but with all the choas that ensues in air combat it was every man for himself. hurricanes and spitfires were shooting anything and everything. The hurricane did alot better against the 109E than many people give it credit for. To cut a long story short... it could dogfight with a 109E during the battle of britain with relative ease. BUT... this wasnt because the 109 was bad, but because it had to protect bombers and stay close by.

The hurricane was liked by pilots because it was a far more stable gun platform than the spitfire due it its thicker wing and the guns being closer together and not spread oout throughout the wing. Also because it as you say could take a lot of battle damage. But also because it was very forgiving to rookie pilots. Due to the wider landing gear it was much easier to land than the spitfire.

All in all in many people eyes, in 1940 the hurricane was just as good as the spitfire at taking down bombers and fighting with the 109E.

Following the battle of britain, it didnt fair as well in a dogfight but did an outstanding job in other roles such as anti tank duties and night intruder :D

[nudger1964]

so do the stats reflect that?....must say i thought that the spitfire did get a much higher proportion of fighter kills relative to their numbers....but i could easily be wrong. the stats will tell the story im sure

and the 109s styaing close to bombers...that wasnt the case earlier on in the battle though was it? And yes, i did get that mainly from the movie (battle of britain)...but i do hear that 95% of the movie can be taken as historical record. and its a great movie to boot

[trk29]

If you read the manual that came with the game alot of the devs that worked on the original and 1946 are mentioned in the manual, including Oleg.

[King Jareth]

If you read the manual that came with the game alot of the devs that worked on the original and 1946 are mentioned in the manual, including Oleg.

but isn't that because the original IL2 team made the source code so they should rightfully be listed in the credits?

We are not busy with Birds of Prey project. It is third party project under control of 1C. We just gave them full source code and did neccessary consultations.

Oleg Maddox post here (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=43186&postcount=935)

[Wireflyer]

Good morning !

It´s true and to my view a flaw of this game that part of the aircraft performance is not displayed correctly.Let´s say climb/turn performance Bf109 vs Spitfire, Turn/Stall characteristics P-51, Me 262 etc. Still I don´t mind and enjoy the game and I am confident the DEV´s they will take care of it.Still I wonder at some point who was the technical advisor, if at all, to this game or if his advise was sacrificed for the gameplay.

As mentioned before by others, part of the success of the Me 109 was the long term experience many ace pilots had with the plane also in combat during the Spanish civil war, honing their skills and tactics. Even the plane might have been superior in some fields over the Spitfire and Hurricane it was mostly up to the pilots experience to win or loose the dogfight. By the time of the Battle of Britain some pilots had already seen combat with the 109 over Spain, Poland and France.

To my view the Hurricane is also underrated vs. the 109. Actually the 109E was quite tricky to fly in low speed maneuvers, because of the spring loaded slats that could extend unevenly and cause a sudden snap roll or at least to loose a good position for a shot while turning with the Hurricane.Just a look at the wing will tell you that for tight low speed turns the Hurricane was much more forgiving, especially for a less experienced pilot.

Internal papers of the Luftwaffe of those days, rating aircraft performance against each other, saw even the Me 110 ahead in performance (also turning !) which was quickly revised during the Battle of Britain, telling pilots not to get into a turning fight with Hurricanes. Just dive for the deck and run....


Greets

Wireflyer

(180h PA-28,350h F-33, 120h PA-42,2600h A319,320,321, 1800h A333-A346 and counting...)