Finally I can put my MSFFB2 in the cellar! G940 godness...

[mazex]

Just got my G940 set today and it's nice to finally be able to put my trusty MSFFB2 in retirement! Here are some observations after using it for only an evening...

Force feedback effects are a must for me (especially the stall buffeting) and I've been thinking there never would arrive a joystick to match the MSFFB2 that has been discontinued since long. Our niche hobby is getting smaller and smaller so I thought I would have to go back to spring loaded CH stuff like in the 90:ies...

Some years ago I bought a Saitek Cyborg Evo Force when it hit the market to have a replacement for my aging MS stick. Used it once and never touched it again. Gave it to some relative I think... I have tried the cheapo Logitech sticks and they are not good enough either. Yes, I have tried the X52, CH:s and the Cougar too - but like I said, FF is a must for me...

Enter the G940... With shaking hands I broke the package and quickly connected it, I'm using Windows 7 RTM 64-bit so I had prepared by downloading the 5.08 driver that is brand new. Fired up IL2 and got into the air... Only 85% throttle and something pulled to the side. Went into the configuration and calibrated all the trim wheels etc and got it working after that.

So what about it? The overall impression can be summarized by the fact that my beloved MSFFB2 is now on a shelf in the attic. The G940 may not be the Grail I hoped for - but it's close enough!

Some impressions:

Joystick:

Really nice FF effects! (using by own toned down ff effects done way back when to avoid hysterical cannon recoils etc). The FF effects are simply better than the MSFFB2. Stronger and at the same time more subtle if you understand what I mean. The fact that has been pointed out by someone In another forum that the "no force zone" in the middle is the only real complaint, but it bothers me less than I thought it would. I have not gotten the micro stick (top metal hat) to work in IL2 which I guess would make it even better.

The stick really feels expensive which is never wrong after paying 300 euros ;)

Throttle:

Feels good, I like the lit up panel buttons. Nice to have the dual throttle setup for 4.10 ;)

Pedals:

I like them. I've been using Thrustmaster Elite pedals before and I think I like these better fo some reason. I have the say that the variable resistance setting is a bit too weak for me. Setting it to "stiff" makes the pedals less "self centering" which is what I want more of when setting a "stronger" setting!

Well, If you sit there with your old MSFFB2 that occasionally experiences trigger malfunction like mine did - you know there is hope!

/Mazex

[fuzzychickens]

Tell me, are the X and Y axis distinct from each other? I mean, is it easy to avoid unintended elevator input when you are rolling the plane and vice versa?

[Snuff_Pidgeon]

thanks for posting Mazex.

[=815=TooCooL]

Does it feature variable tension according to speed like MSFFB2 ?
Thank you for posting info. I've been waiting for it.

[KG26_Alpha]

Sweden must be the only country to have stock, what company sold it to you ?

I have been waiting months for stock on the G940 !!!

[mazex]

Tell me, are the X and Y axis distinct from each other? I mean, is it easy to avoid unintended elevator input when you are rolling the plane and vice versa?

Let me guess that you are a CH user? ;) Well, as it is not spring loaded it does not have the ability to do a roll with zero elevator input like a fighterstick, but does a real plane have that? :) Compared to the MSFFB2 it feels the same, maybe with a feeling that a loop with no aileron deflection is easier than a roll with no elevator... maybe... No problem for me that is used to the MSFFB2 since long, but I remember going from a CH stick to the MSFFB2 way back when that I also noted what you describe...

Regards /Mazex

[mazex]

Does it feature variable tension according to speed like MSFFB2 ?
Thank you for posting info. I've been waiting for it.

Yes, and it feels "wider" in its spectra than the MSFFB2. The only backside is that there is a small deadzone in the middle of the movement. I heard someone that felt this was an immersion killer, but like I said above I actually dont get that bothered by it. It's actually nice to be able to make small aiming "calibrations" without using a lot of muscle :) I have not investigated the configuration options regarding the "force deadzone" but there may be options for that. No problem for me.

By the way, the precision when aiming for example feels a lot better than the MSFFB2!

/Mazex

[mazex]

Sweden must be the only country to have stock, what company sold it to you ?

I have been waiting months for stock on the G940 !!!

As small company callled "PC Doctorn". 3099 swedish crowns...

[HFC_Dolphin]

So, if we forget the force feedback feature, which is not important for many of us, if you compared it to CH Fighterstick, which one is the best?
Which one is more precise, so you can get the best shot?

[HFC_Dolphin]

BTW, I see that it has rudder pedals and throttle as well.
Don't they sell them separately, in case you don't want the pedals for example?

[mazex]

So, if we forget the force feedback feature, which is not important for many of us, if you compared it to CH Fighterstick, which one is the best?
Which one is more precise, so you can get the best shot?

Well, it was unfortunately a long time since I had my trusty old CH Flight stick (it broke down after 10 years of heavy usage) - but I remember it was very exact. It also remember that it was a bit too much "defaulting" to the the four base axis if you understand what I mean. I have tried later versions but they basically feel the same. Sure, if you want the most exact stick it may be a CH stick, but the immersion? As an old IRL pilot I appreciate the stall buffeting more than the minor loss of accuracy caused by vibrations and no spring centering...

I other tests I've read the precision is on par with the CH sticks and better than Saitek and Thrustmaster, especially as it uses expensive Hall sensors and no potentiometers as many of the others use. It sure is more accurate than my old MSFFB2 at least!

Regards /Mazex

[mazex]

BTW, I see that it has rudder pedals and throttle as well.
Don't they sell them separately, in case you don't want the pedals for example?

Nope - unfortunately. And the pedals and throttle connect to the stick with properitary connectors so no use selling them...

[fuzzychickens]

Let me guess that you are a CH user? ;) Well, as it is not spring loaded it does not have the ability to do a roll with zero elevator input like a fighterstick, but does a real plane have that? :) Compared to the MSFFB2 it feels the same, maybe with a feeling that a loop with no aileron deflection is easier than a roll with no elevator... maybe... No problem for me that is used to the MSFFB2 since long, but I remember going from a CH stick to the MSFFB2 way back when that I also noted what you describe...

Regards /Mazex

Yes, that is true, but flight sims don't act on your inner ear to make you aware of unintentional control input like real flying does.

Anyways, I wonder if there is a way to sping load the center dead space that occurs before FFB takes over, would that improve gunnery?

[mazex]

Yes, that is true, but flight sims don't act on your inner ear to make you aware of unintentional control input like real flying does.

Anyways, I wonder if there is a way to sping load the center dead space that occurs before FFB takes over, would that improve gunnery?

Not sure if it would be better, maybe it's the opposite...

Regarding the small "dead zone" on this stick and realism it's not that bad actually. I've flown many old aircraft with some "slack" in the aileron connections for example. That gives the same effect... Some millimeters of "no force" and then the air pressure giving the force.

[II/JG54_Emil]

Please keep us updated about your impression the goods and the bads in a long term

[=815=TooCooL]

Not sure if it would be better, maybe it's the opposite...

Regarding the small "dead zone" on this stick and realism it's not that bad actually. I've flown many old aircraft with some "slack" in the aileron connections for example. That gives the same effect... Some millimeters of "no force" and then the air pressure giving the force.

Actually, MSFFB2 also has that slack, dead force zone.
Is there noticeable difference between G940 and MS?

[JZG_Pedro]

Damn man! Congrats!! G940 must be just awesome!!

Im a RL pilot too, and it's interesting cuz heavier and less self-centering pedals are all I want! Don't you dislike the excessive self-centerig of PC pedals (compared to RL flying) ? I fly small, old single-engined trainers (getting my CPL now), and the rudder reacts in a much heavier and "looser" way..

[mazex]

Actually, MSFFB2 also has that slack, dead force zone.
Is there noticeable difference between G940 and MS?

Yes, that's true - but it's a bit bigger on the G940 I think... I does not bother me and if I hadn't read the review that talked about it I don't think I would have thought of it.

The G940 actually feels very similar to the MS, which is good! It feels like subtle effects are less "edgy" than the MS. The MS rattles a bit when doing the stall buffeting, while the G940 has a bit more analogue feeling to the buffeting. Definately better. At the same time it really gets stiff when trying to pull out you 109 going 750 km/h in a steep dive close to the ground...

When trying an execercise I have for testing the precision it really excels over the MS. My test is to move in a small circle in one of the quadrants of the joystick, kind of a circle in the circle. With the G940 I can do really small sub-circles with no spikes at all...

/Mazex

/Mazex

[Thunderbolt56]

Damn man! Congrats!! G940 must be just awesome!!

Im a RL pilot too, and it's interesting cuz heavier and less self-centering pedals are all I want! Don't you dislike the excessive self-centerig of PC pedals (compared to RL flying) ? I fly small, old single-engined trainers (getting my CPL now), and the rudder reacts in a much heavier and "looser" way..

Agreed there is a difference, but in my experience the weathervaning effect has a centering quality to the rudder by itself. Only in stall maneuvers does the rudder input slacken to a point that it doesn't self-correct to a point more equivalent to pc pedals.

At least that's been my experience.

[KG26_Alpha]

The difference in speed and trim/yaw dampening on the rudder would affect self centering effect, compare a high speed fighter to a Cessna the low speed slackness especially around stall speeds would feel loose as compared to high speed stiffness through cable inputs although the electrical FW190 system would give a different effect motors and solid rods would induce a different feel on the control surfaces via FFB one would have thought !!

Not sure the differences are that subtle in IL21946 to make any comparisons but across different sims maybe its modelled to have a different feel on the stick between cables and hydro electro systems, I think the biggest asset of FFB sticks has always been the ability to feel stalls coming on and catch them before hand, at this point for me FFB is very important.

[mazex]

Damn man! Congrats!! G940 must be just awesome!!

Im a RL pilot too, and it's interesting cuz heavier and less self-centering pedals are all I want! Don't you dislike the excessive self-centerig of PC pedals (compared to RL flying) ? I fly small, old single-engined trainers (getting my CPL now), and the rudder reacts in a much heavier and "looser" way..

Well, I have to agree with Thunderbolt here. It's really only when doing a Hammerhead that the rudder pedals loose their self centering effect from my experiences, otherwise the air pressure will push them back.

Most WW II birds have the rudder "overhang" present on many modern aerobatic planes with large rudders to make rudder control less self centering so I guess they had a rather hard "self centering" effect (look at the 109 for example).

Then I agree that they often require a lot more pressure than PC-peripherals!

/Mazex

[Sokol1]

...especially as it uses expensive Hall sensors and no potentiometers as many of the others use.

The myth that HALL sensor are expensive is due replacement ones sold for HOTAS Cougar, borrowed from automotive industry.

Actually HALL sensors is cheap than good potentiometers.

Type of sensor used in Saitek X-52 cost around 2.00U$ each (X and Y axis).
Type of sensor use in Thrustmaster T.16000M cost around 3.00U$.
Probably are triaxial Melexis sensors, and probably the same is used in G940.
http://www.melexis.com/Sensor_ICs_Hall_effect/Triaxis_Hall_ICs/MLX90333_648.aspx

Potentiometers (CTS?) used in CH sticks are sold, as spare part at 9,95 U$.

Some purists will say that good pots are as good (or better?) as Hall sensor, but fortunately to us, the joystick manufactures are using XXI century technology, since no one manufacturer in China will use 9,95 U$ pots... Fact!

Some guys stay one steep ahead in sensors use, they are using MaRS (magnetoresistor):
http://www.gametrix.ru/products/category/1

Sokol1

[Sokol1]

My test is to move in a small circle in one of the quadrants of the joystick, kind of a circle in the circle. With the G940 I can do really small sub-circles with no spikes at all...

You can use JoyTester2 and post results for us?

http://www.wikifortio.com/830786/JoyTester2.zip

For test make a spiral with stick. If possible with MS FF2 too.

Sample using CH Fighterstick:

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1512/chf16pot.th.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/i/chf16pot.jpg/)

Sokol1

[mazex]

You can use JoyTester2 and post results for us?

http://www.wikifortio.com/830786/JoyTester2.zip

For test make a spiral with stick. If possible with MS FF2 too.

Sample using CH Fighterstick:

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1512/chf16pot.th.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/i/chf16pot.jpg/)

Sokol1

He he, I think it was more of my "artistick" skill that was the limit with the G940 ;) The MSFFB2 feels good too, but the lines go more "jagged". Not that it was bad in any way but the G940 definately felt "sharper"...

First the G940:

http://web.telia.com/%7Eu55702101/images/joytest_g940.jpg


And the MSFFB2:

http://web.telia.com/%7Eu55702101/images/joytest_msffb2.jpg


Not a big differnence, more like art ;)

[zaelu]

Two things I don't think I will like at this Logitech (I didn't put my hands on one but a good friend has one for more than a week and told me how it is)

1. The trimmers are analogues... Why not made of wood? What's wrong with digital? What's wrong with a mouse scroll? You have a fine axis with good increments and a quick reset to origin at the ready. There are a lot of digital knobs out there... why not use them? Why not put a stupid chip to even connect the trimmers to the force feedback and actually move the control column via force feedback front-backwards or left-right?

Oh... i see... some have a fetish for the infinite adjusting "powers" of an analogue axis... well... Any analogue axis has no more than 256 values (more than enough actually) cause that's how Direct input is designed. And also, direct input limits the number of axis per controller to 8... which causes the problems in X52 cases and Cougar (both that i own).

The greatest fact is that all analog potentiometers gets crappy by time and reliability would be a good reason to switch to digital... like the main axis...

2. The trimmers have no central point or the central point is very unclear.

Otherwise, my friend told me that the new Logitech is in another league when it comes to quality of materials and execution. I had an X52 and now I use an X52 Pro and I can tell if X52 was smelling a bit of a let down in quality of materials used... X52 pro looks like a cheap copy.

Maybe i will buy a Logitech... but only if they fix the trimmers... at least make them have a central point more clear.

[ECV56_Guevara]

.

2. The trimmers have no central point or the central point is very unclear.
Maybe i will buy a Logitech... but only if they fix the trimmers... at least make them have a central point more clear.

I totally agree. I´m at the same point, detent points in the trims are a "must" An the g940 doesn´t have a protection for the bomb´s buttoms, that s a pity. Call me an excentric but i love this feature in my old X45. Lot of times it save my mission.
By the way, Mazex, thanks for the info!!!!

[DD_crash]

Not sure the differences are that subtle in IL21946 to make any comparisons but across different sims maybe its modelled to have a different feel on the stick between cables and hydro electro systems, I think the biggest asset of FFB sticks has always been the ability to feel stalls coming on and catch them before hand, at this point for me FFB is very important.
How strong are the FFB effects in Il-2? I keep missing clues as to an approaching stall/spin and feel that it will help me fly better IF they are strong enough. I tried a Saitek Cyborg and even at 100% on the set up screen they felt weak in the game. Is there any utility to increase the amount over 100%?

[nearmiss]

Am not going to wet my pants over this one. I've got a recently purchased new Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse that cost $120+ and it doesn't work. I remember trying to remove logitech mouse drivers from my system and couldn't get an answer from LT and finally just left them on the system. I would be very suspicious of Logitech support. I don't mean now when they first introduce the product. I mean after the stick has had all it's initial marketing hype exhausted.

One biggy sales point for LT is the forcefeedback. I used A MSFT FF2 stick for ages and it was the best. My only complaint was the stick bouncing around took me off targets often, a real help to my enemies online. Got my chops busted regularly until I eliminated the FF from the guns, as best I recall. The FF did add to the immersive feel of the sim, but the buttkicker does as well. I always laughed about going on line getting my buttkicked.

It is great you are excited about your purchase, but the proof will be in the service you get. My CH hotas is going strong. I just added a MFP to it and plan to order an additional set of keys and face plate next week.

The CHproducts is a winner (but NOT forcefeedback). Rugged equipment and terrific software. The CH forums has some very sharp people responding to support issues and they take care of business.

I don't think of CHproducts as the big gun by any means because they are a bit backwards... marketing wise. The equipment has a few L.E.D. lights, but they are very understated. So, from a gamer viewpoint they don't add to the excitement of the game. It's just that the CH hotas does the job expected everytime.

CHproducts are a true value for the money, because the quality is commercial grade. They make a large array of commercial joysticks and controllers for industry. I think it is probably a miracle they are still messing with gamers. We are a royal pain in the wazoo for the most part, demanding support.

I'm not knocking your product purchase. I'm just saying all that glitters may not be gold, but it will be tested within the next year. So, making an expensive purchase like this should be planned to make a best decision. I bought my CHProducts setup a piece at a time, there was no mystic after the first purchase I knew exactly what I was getting with each new item purchased. I have never regretted a single CHProduct purchase, so far.

One problem we all have is wanting to do things better, it goes with the game and the things we use to do the game. Yet, we must use our intelligence to know that our expectations cannot necessarily be fixed by something new that is presented as the "Hotas Holy Grail".

Go for it if you are convinced, but don't overlook other proven choices is my point.

[mazex]

The CHproducts is a winner (but NOT forcefeedback). Rugged equipment and terrific software. The CH forums has some very sharp people responding to support issues and they take care of business.


Bought my first CH Stick for my trusty old 386DX-16 in 1989 for playing "Their Finest Hour", "Red Baron", "Fighter Bomber" and other high fidelity PC sims :) so I sure know how to appreciate CH stuff... Had two CH sticks during the years but both have been worn out, as opposed to my MSFFB2...

As I'm off topic now thinking about the old games I played on the PC back then, I found this site while writing this post with abandonware (download the open source app dosbox to be able to run them on a modern PC - http://www.dosbox.com/download.php?main=1): (http://www.dosbox.com/download.php?main=1%29:)

http://www.xtcabandonware.com/index.php?id=1285&type=Flight

Just downloaded and played F29 Retaliator that was the first PC flight "simulator" that I played on multiplayer in 1991 - on a serial cable. Damn it was fun. It has no FM or realism at all, but the missions where real fun on multiplayer. A simple idea that is great for two player multi:

You started in the air and both got the same target "Tank in E5" or something. You then got point for killing that target. If you focused on shooting down the other player you got no points, but you only had 5 planes to you could win on points after some time period or "elimination" after the 5 planes where out. Wery much like your every day IL2 server running GC2 :) The fun (and non realistic) part was that both had the same target... Could be fun for IL2 too actually.

Played some SWOTL too while writing this - amazing that I thought it was so beautiful :)

Back to waiting for news then...

Edit: Found Aces over Europe that is one of the games I've spent most time with in those days as abandonware too:

http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/154/Aces+Over+Europe.html

Works great in dosbox. Gotta go back for some channel fighting!

/Mazex

[Waldo.Pepper]

I'm sold. I'm getting this after these favorable comments I think. Thanks.

[l88bastard]

I picked up a G940 and it is amazing! I have a CH fighterstick & throttle (sold the pedals) now collecting dust in my closet.

There is simply no comparison, the G940 blows the Ch gear out of the water. The G940 makes the CH gear feel like childrens toys really. I couldn't live without the G940 now just like I can't live without my triple screens

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/l88bastard/102220097518.jpg

New pic After I fixed the border alignment
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/l88bastard/102320097528.jpg

Here is my write up on amazon

3 of 5 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars This HOTAS setup is amazing!, October 9, 2009
By Baron Hornswaggle Von Goldenwulf - See all my reviews
I have owned a CH Fighterstick, Throttle, and Pedals for one year and I am now going to throw them out if I cannot sell them, because after using the G940 for a week I WILL NEVER GO BACK to CH!

The G940 stick is 10 times better than the CH fighterstick and the forcefeed back alone is worth the price of admission. I play IL2-1946 and Over Flanders Field and the force feedback is top notch! People boast that the CHs are the most accurate sticks you can buy, well this is no longer true.

The G940 throttle is so much better than the CH Throttle as well. It has a more natural curve of motion, the buttons and dials are better layed out and it is way more comfortable to use.

The G940 pedals are also ten times better than the ch pedals. The g940s are about an inch wider and use a more natural & realistic rocker range of motion than the CHs gimped forced linear range of motion.

In short, the CH Products feel like toys compared to the G940. If you like simulators these are a must buy!

Does anybody want to buy a used CH HOTAS setup that is in excellent condition?

As I said, these are the best of the best (unless you spend $20,000 on a professional military grade HOTAS setup) and a must buy if you enjoy playing flight sims. These are to the flying games what the G25 is to the racing games...

[Lucas_From_Hell]

I picked up a G940 and it is amazing! I have a CH fighterstick & throttle (sold the pedals) now collecting dust in my closet.

There is simply no comparison, the G940 blows the Ch gear out of the water. The G940 makes the CH gear feel like childrens toys really. I couldn't live without the G940 now just like I can't live without my triple screens

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/l88bastard/102220097518.jpg

New pic After I fixed the border alignment
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/l88bastard/102320097528.jpg

Here is my write up on amazon

3 of 5 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars This HOTAS setup is amazing!, October 9, 2009
By Baron Hornswaggle Von Goldenwulf - See all my reviews
I have owned a CH Fighterstick, Throttle, and Pedals for one year and I am now going to throw them out if I cannot sell them, because after using the G940 for a week I WILL NEVER GO BACK to CH!

The G940 stick is 10 times better than the CH fighterstick and the forcefeed back alone is worth the price of admission. I play IL2-1946 and Over Flanders Field and the force feedback is top notch! People boast that the CHs are the most accurate sticks you can buy, well this is no longer true.

The G940 throttle is so much better than the CH Throttle as well. It has a more natural curve of motion, the buttons and dials are better layed out and it is way more comfortable to use.

The G940 pedals are also ten times better than the ch pedals. The g940s are about an inch wider and use a more natural & realistic rocker range of motion than the CHs gimped forced linear range of motion.

In short, the CH Products feel like toys compared to the G940. If you like simulators these are a must buy!

Does anybody want to buy a used CH HOTAS setup that is in excellent condition?

As I said, these are the best of the best (unless you spend $20,000 on a professional military grade HOTAS setup) and a must buy if you enjoy playing flight sims. These are to the flying games what the G25 is to the racing games...

I'm sold :-P.

If it's as good as you say, I'll probably be buying it as soon as my Force3DPro stop working (which might not be too far from now, as it's already showing some problems... probably too much use, but it's a relatively new joystick with less than a year. Of course, you can't expect much from cheap joysticks, and this one, for it's price, is a good option) and I gather some money to do the upgrade.

There's anyone that converted from CH to G940 and felt like this? I just need one more opinion...

[13th Hsqn Protos]

Excellent Hotas.

Needs some minor mods but best stock system out there period.
Tried them all - this is the best


Pros
Extremely High Quality Materials and Finish
Very adjustable
Much more precise than my MSFFB II
Rudder pedals are best in class bar non.

Cons
As stated elsewhere, detents on rotaries would be ideal
will have to build some kind of sheild or cover for throttle buttons, you can accidentally brush them at 100% power (not a problem for pits)
Centering is not good at default levels, needs to be bumped up in software... but this is not really a con.

Forget the rest ...... just buy the best. G940 Best in Class.

[nearmiss]

I can appreciate all the enthusiasm, and all that bit about trashing the CHproducts,etc. CHprod are already tested by thousands of IL2 users for over 10 years.

I think it would be wise to wait on Logitech anything. All of Logitech products look good, and are very well designed for consumer appeal. The quality (IMO) extends just that far. I've been lured in many times by that quality appearance. Recently purchased wireless Logitech keyboard and mouse.. it really looks like a professional product...doesn't friggin' work. Had it about 2 weeks too long to return to retailer. Now I've gotta go through all the Logitech RMA process, if I want to get it fixed.

Here are the numbers on back of the keyboard to corroborate what I'm saying.

M/N:Y-RCP140
P/N:820-000396
(137340-001 B)
PID:MC831CZ
C/N:02015

It would be wise for anyone that has to work for their money to wait abit on this one. I've had issues with every Logitech product I've ever owned, including the G11 gamer keyboard. It was so stoked it was not working within a week. I took that puppy back to BestBuy and got my money back. I was just glad it was a bombed out within the return merchandise period.

Seriously, if Thrustmaster came out with a new Hotas I might consider it.

yymKaZ96KoY

[ElAurens]

I'll give the G940 a pass till I see the same glowing reports a year from now.

My apprehensions about Logitech quality are well founded.

I hope they have turned the corner on the quality issue, but only time and testing will tell, and I won't pay to beta test hardware.

I wish those that have them well.

[robtek]

I am afraid that i was too eager :-(
i've bought the g940 at 28.09.09 and already it seems that the potis in the rudder pedals are giving jumping output.
When i use right rudder in combination with brakes the pedals give me max. 10% when there should be 100%.
The fault is also visible in the game controller test window.
I have the actual software 5.08 64 bit and i'm using win7 64 bit.
Lets see what Logitech says to that.
btw, i've used my saitek pedals for over a year with no probs.

[l88bastard]

I am afraid that i was too eager :-(
i've bought the g940 at 28.09.09 and already it seems that the potis in the rudder pedals are giving jumping output.
When i use right rudder in combination with brakes the pedals give me max. 10% when there should be 100%.
The fault is also visible in the game controller test window.
I have the actual software 5.08 64 bit and i'm using win7 64 bit.
Lets see what Logitech says to that.
btw, i've used my saitek pedals for over a year with no probs.

Well make sure they are plugged in correctly. I had a rudder scare a little while ago....actually i was getting no rudder output at all and it turns out that they became unplugged from the joystick :grin:

The only thing the G940 has to prove to me now is the test of time. My Logitec G25 wheel, shifter and pedals are still good as new and Ive had them for a year, so we will see how the G940 holds up. Currently it is getting heavy daily use with IL2 and OFF.

I am not here to bash the CH products, but having had the top of the line CH stuff I can't defend them either. I just found the CH fighterstick to be too light and dainty in my hands (and after only a year I was getting POT issues with it), the CH throttle with its flat push stick motion just sucks and I absolutely hated the CH pedals....HATED THEM!

I am not trying to win other people over to the logitec, but I could not imagine sitting on the fence waiting, knowing that the experience I am having with these logitecs is out and available now! Basically, after two weeks of heavy usage, I could not sim without them. PERIOD!

My 2 cents for what its worth, take it our leave it you poor G940 less bastards... oh and I work for my money too...granted I load up on grog, dance on tables and shove my wank in female faces while I slowly gyrate to prince, van halen and def leppard toons, but none the less it is work and those dollars slowly add up...over the course of the night lol

[Azimech]

I'm glad people are happy with the G940.

Since 2002 I've been using an MS FFB2 and still very happy with it. But as usual with heavy used stuff, some problems arose in the years... buttons not eager to work etc.

Recently I received a Saitek wheel & pedals and a broken MS FFB2. So out of two sticks I built a very good one (is as good as new!) and used the internal electronics, switches and pots of the other to expand my throttle-setup. This really will become a HOTAS.

I'v already built my own pedals out of wood, but that one had a gameport interface. Now I'm going to use the steering wheel internals... very surprised to see the Saitek uses optics, like old mice!

Further I'm going to use more steering wheels for trimming, they are much more precise. Just remove the return-to-center spring and all is ready to go!

I will be using the MS FFB2 for a LONG time. Parts are cheap/cost next to nothing and I can repair them myself. That's a big plus!

[hiro]

A few months ago I need to replace my ailing 3 month old Logitech extreme . . . the stick in neutral would input left aileron and pull down (when using IL-2 config, the green / red squares) and the twist was pulling max twist right or left everytime the stick was touched. Got a replacement but it took nearly a month to get it . . . but didn't want to replace it every 3 mo's or so.

I could have waited a month and gotten the G940 . . . but the only review was Jay Hall's and it wasn't enough to grab me.


I went with full CH set up . . . I needed a HOTAS and the G940 was too new. I made it a personal policy to not get 1st gen stuff (since this was Logitech's 1st gen HOTAS).

A) my friend does UAV programming for the electronics, and all the guys there use the mil grade CH stuff and got a SPAWAR thumbs up.

B) many posts here and in the UBIZOO said CH was built for durability and reliability, plus you could get couger programming complicated or simply just plug and play (configure using windows control panel game controllers)

B2) I noticed Saitek, Logitech, Thrustmaster all had "horror" posts on quality, customer service run arounds etc . . . but CH didn't . . .

C) the guys in CH hanger were quick to get back to you . . .

D) A real life friend's psycho' ex powerlifting girlfriend grabbed and threw his 4 year old CH gear, ripping the USB's out (but they still worked on both PC and CH) and hurled it across the street in a badly aimed throw at my car while I was hot evac' him (away from her). I came back around he got it. They are scratched but worked fine despite the 5+ meter rise and fall.




So far with my CH HOTAS it rocks.

There are a few caveats with CH, it is light and offers no resistance, but I got used to it very fast.

CH I can use on full 100% sensitivity in il2 joy control, other joysticks wobble or do something nutty with 100%.

The CH pedals were designed for women in mind, I would appreciate one that allowed more foot spread . . . I can manage (spread my knees apart and set it at a right distance from my chair . . . ) but still hope the newers one have more feet spacing . . .


Hopefully Logitech did fix the durability issue ... and the G940 shows this . . .

Also Saitek has a HOTAS with a stick that doesn't move but feels the force of your hand when you push and detects that.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

I love this thread.

Its about Logitech G940....

but all I see is CH fanbois butthurt or others crying cause their gear isn't on top anymore.

Is the G940 the coming of the Messiah ? No
Is the G940 the best stock H.O.T.A.S you can buy for the money? YES

So many people who don't own it or haven't tried it posting ........ like the noobs who have never flown a real plane, but cry about flight models or stick force pressures at 8g ....... you have to have been there to have a clue ...... same with the G940 .... if you haven't owned it - you don't know what your talking about.

I own it - its VERY good - not perfect - Best solution currently available for Force Feedback devotees. Built better than CH.

How do I know **** cause I have owned and used both.


.

[ElAurens]

Get back to me after 5 or 6 years of hard use and then we'll have a discussion.

I hope it works out, but I'm not going to bet my money on a Logitech new release.

[nearmiss]

I think we must be conversing with a reseller of Logitech.

The time will tell advice isn't playing out with this one.

I'll bet I can find some more youtuber's having problems with this one.

[mazex]

I think we must be conversing with a reseller of Logitech.

The time will tell advice isn't playing out with this one.

I'll bet I can find some more youtuber's having problems with this one.

Bad day at work? ;)

[13th Hsqn Protos]

I think we must be conversing with a reseller of Logitech.

The time will tell advice isn't playing out with this one.

I'll bet I can find some more youtuber's having problems with this one.

I will let your logitech keyboard whines ..... stand on their own as the measure of your Hotas qualifications .... you lack all credibility in this thread because you have no facts to base it on.

I own it ..... you google youtube fsx videos about it ..... yeah your right - everyone should listen to you :rolleyes:

[nearmiss]

I will let your logitech keyboard whines ..... stand on their own as the measure of your Hotas qualifications .... you lack all credibility in this thread because you have no facts to base it on.

I own it ..... you google youtube fsx videos about it ..... yeah your right - everyone should listen to you :rolleyes:

You're losing your cool dude.

There are 6 billion people in the world, and I'm just one of them. No sense getting out of sorts because one person among all that mix doesn't agree with you.

Forums aren't about complete agreement, if that were the case what purpose would they serve. Your posting is not the first where someone has gone off on something this simple.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

You're losing your cool dude.

Your posting is not the first where someone has gone off on something this simple.

Are you looking in the mirror before typing these things out?

This thread started out about an excellent new Hotas. Time to get the thead back on track.

Thanks to Mazex, Sokol and others for some fine information and graphs.



.

[nearmiss]

Time will tell

[l88bastard]

Are you looking in the mirror before typing these things out?

This thread started out about an excellent new Hotas. Time to get the thead back on track.

Thanks to Mazex, Sokol and others for some fine information and graphs.



.

Ahh some people get very emotional over their hardware. Attachments are strong, its human nature, especially when you are talking about companies that have served a market strongly for many, many years (CH). But, currently the CH products are aged and have lost their competitive edge versus up and comers that offer better design and cooler features.

I used my ch setup for a year and it was great, but I am the type of consumer that moves on and does not look back. I am anxious to see CH's redesigns but from the sound of it those products are not going to hit market for at least 6 months, while their competitors superior products are available now (logitec).

My 8800 ultras are still very strong and viable, but for me, its time to step up to the current best and that is ATI. I don't discern between ATI or Nvidia, both make excellent products, but the nature of the business is one will always out top the other eventually. ATIs 9700pro wiped the slate with Nvidia and Nvidias 8 series wiped the slate with ATI and now ATI is back with the 5870. Its a constant arm wrestling match and that is why competition is so great!

[Codex]

Have to agree with l88bastard on this. As a regular up-grader I do understand that some are afraid of purchasing new kit, its not a nice felling to have new hardware with problems. Hell I bought the first round of the X52 and still have issues today, but I have had many years of enjoyment with it too. As of right now the G940 is here and is offering everything I want, even from just reading the specs, its a great piece of kit. Saitek's offering (X65) will not do as there's no FFB, and I don't know if CH has any FFB HOTAS in the pipe line at this stage, so for me this is a no brainer. I've ordered a G940 and I'll be picking it up tomorrow along with a TrackIR 5. It's time to move on ;)

[unreasonable]

I have just got this set and started it up after abandoning my CH products HOTAS, which I liked, but suffered terribly from QC problems after 100 hours or so - throttle slider on Combatstick not working, random changes in game throttle power using the Pro Throttle (is this what you call spiking?)

First impressions are good - throttle a bit tricky to get calibrated correctly, but once up and running a very nice smooth response and feel.

If you are not too price sensitive worth a try... but at this price they better not break quickly!

[nearmiss]

It took me about 2 weeks before I had my CH hotas setup properly for what I wanted it to do in IL2. No, it wasn't about being difficult it was about where I what buttons I wanted to do certain things.

The CH control manager is an awesome tool, allowing me to program all kinds of applicatons... including development tools on my MFP programmable keyboard. It is not just a gamer tool. I simply load the profile for Il2, or BOB II WOV, or Jane's F/A-18 with a few clicks and as long as I still have a good recall for the programmed buttons I'm enjoying the sim. I don't have to mess with the keyboard for the most part or remember commands.

Example.. I wanted proppitch on the stick at the top left, next to the top right button. The top right button was for Elevator and rudder trip (4 way pov switch).

There are exceptional tools for setting up the CH hotas wherein after I set up the commands per the respective keys I can printout a picture of the stick with the commands clearly tagged. This helps a great deal after you program the hotas. I simply set the printout to the side and review it as a I use the hotas. It is a quantum leap to learning complex button arrangements I have programmed into the hotas. There are other exceptional tools as well that have been developed over the years.

In other words it tooks some time to work through the way I wanted things to be. A new hotas would require alot of new programming and other stuff for the number of sims I have setup now. I'm not lazy or anything like that, but it does take time to get a feel for changes in the hotas. Spending $300 when everything is working so well. It doesn't make a lot of sense for me... in my situation.

If you that are proponents of the Logitech hotas are talking the same a year from now I'd say your admiration may have merit. Can you accept that, without thinking it's bashing you for your choice of Logitech?

It is fair to let others know that all that glitters may not be gold, and that is the crux of what I've tried to say. Not trying to alienate or insult anyone.

Just a difference of opinion at this point in time. If the Logitech works out and is a stable platform, it won't matter if I agree or disagree. The proof will be in performance and longevity.

Pax

[HFC_Dolphin]

There's a simple reasoning to support CH: most IL-2 aces use it :-)

Nothing simpler nearmiss and no need to explain a lot ;-)

[HFC_Dolphin]

By the way, I'm not talking about the CH rudders, which I haven't used.
I use Hoffman's (R.I.P.) Simped, which are just the best I ever used.

And adding to some previous posts, I did try the G940 and it seemed..."cheap" for my taste.
But still a good option for the average simmer.

In general, we're not all looking for the same things.
I look for precision and quality. Other look for many buttons, others for FFB and other for lots of lights. There are HOTAS and sticks for every taste in the market :D

[Codex]

Well I’m going to put my views on the table here. Don't take this as product/personal bashing as it's not.

I've been using it now for about 14 hours and cannot fault it; I've found it to more of an enjoyable experience than my MSFFB and X52. Re: the comments about it feeling "cheap", I cannot for the life of me understand that, it doesn't feel cheap at all. It's extremely solid and when running through the calibration routines for the FFB effects I thought I was going to injure myself at one point as some of the effects are really strong.

In terms or programmability, any function in a sim (I’m using IL-2 & FSX) can be mapped to the HOTAS, I've actually found the Profiling software much easier to use than Saitek's which to me is saying something. The profiler also has FSX / IL-2 key map pre-loaded so it’s as simple assigning a sim function to a button or rotary and you’re done, I spent at the most about 1/2 hour setting it up for IL-2. As with the X52 software I rejoiced in that fact that you can also map "Zones" or "Axis" to rotary's e.g. I have all the FOVs mapped to the throttle R1 rotary.

All the FFB effects can be adjusted from 0% to 150% (150% will shake the desk ;) ), you can also adjust the spring tension and dampening along the same scales. This has been great for tweaking as I have noticed a huge difference in the way the FFB effects work b/n sims, but that is the sims themselves not the stick. You can also set a spring tension for sims that don’t have FFB built in. My only gripe is that FFB settings can only be set globally; you can't set specific FFB settings for individual sims.

In terms of standing the test of time, yes I agree with many here about that, time will tell, but the same can be said about any new piece of kit. If the G940 is built to the same standard as their FFB racing wheels then I'm not worried. My brother in law has had his FFB Momo Racing Wheel for over 6 years now and it's still running the as good as when it first came out of the box. Yes products do have faults, and there is a given 1% failure rate for most massed produced products, but so far I have had no issues.

I'm happy to say that as of right now, after getting it home and setting up, I haven’t ended up with that disappointment feeling like I did with the X52. For me the G940 works and it works well. :grin:

[JG301_HaJa]

Just bought this G940 setup and have installed it without problem.
It's a completely different setup then my old X52 and CH Pedals. Will take some time to get used to :)

The pedals seems a wee bit softer than the CH ditto.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

The pedals are adjustable. The knob in the center of the rudders controls the tension. Same for Throttle (underneath) tension ect .....

I prefer some extra tension in the rudder myself and have them set pretty tight. I found CH to be a sloppy mess in comparison to the logitechs.

** There is new software on the way which will greatly enhanced scripting ect .....

[l88bastard]

I found CH to be a sloppy mess in comparison to the logitechs.

.....

I could not have said it any better myself, the only thing I hated more than my CH throttle was the CH peddals! They really, really sucked and my girlfriend made fun of my CH setup, she said it looked and felt like a toy, but she does not say that about my g940 setup..... she is in love with that stick lol.

[TheGrunch]

I could not have said it any better myself, the only thing I hated more than my CH throttle was the CH peddals!
I disliked the CH pedals as well after using them for a few weeks, and I don't think I could ever approve of the straight-line throw of the throttle. But I don't think the G940 pedals look much better. Definitely Simpeds (http://www.dhs-electronic.de/index2.php?id=200&lng=en) for me.

[l88bastard]

I disliked the CH pedals as well after using them for a few weeks, and I don't think I could ever approve of the straight-line throw of the throttle. But I don't think the G940 pedals look much better. Definitely Simpeds (http://www.dhs-electronic.de/index2.php?id=200&lng=en) for me.

Yes the simped f16s look like a wet dream but at 268 euros they are def a shot to the balls!

[TheGrunch]

Yes the simped f16s look like a wet dream but at 268 euros they are def a shot to the balls!
Well, I'm not too bothered about toebrakes - don't see the use for IL-2, and I don't play civilian sims. Besides, my favourite aircraft is the Spit and the Spit's brakes were on the control column anyway. I just got the vario/proUSBs since they're on offer for 138€. Just ordered them now, in fact. :-P

[Thunderbolt56]

Do they make a left-handed version?

Does anyone mod this kit to fit leftys yet?

If not, I'll stick with my tried and true 6 year old HOTAS. Everyone knows I'm a CH diehard. I am so because I've tried everything available and always came back to CH for various reasons. I had a Cougar, Saitek X36 and X45 (sorry, after those two, I couldn't bring myself to try an X52), MSFF2 (I actually had two of these) and several CH sticks. Even my first CH Flightstick (the old two button version!) still works on an older pc that still has a gameport.

No, I love my controllers as much because I'm used to them as because they're functional and precise everytime I use them.

When I saw Logitech was putting this product out, I really, really wanted for it to be great stuff. Hell, maybe it is I don't know myself yet. I DO know many of my friends can't plunk down the $700 to get the same setup I use and I would love to be able to recommend a very good alternative. Maybe the Logitech is it. I simply can't, in clear conscience, do that right now thanks to their crap track record on durability and customer service.

There are things that I like and things I don't like about my own controllers and there are things I like and don't like about the Logitech kit based on reviews, but it still looks better than anything Saitek offers (albeit with an accompanying price point).

If you have it and like it, great. I really am happy for you. I hope it holds up (looks like it should) and will be interested in hearing the myriad reviews this time next year...while I'm still flying with my then 7 year old controllers. ;)


TB

[robtek]

They don't build planes for lefties either :-D




sorry, couldn't help it!

[brando]

They don't build planes for lefties either :-D




sorry, couldn't help it!

but then, we're not actually flying planes, are we? Unless they've been keeping the issue of mice and keyboards to WW2 pilots a secret for all these years! LOL, let's have a new conspiracy theory to enliven this thread. ;)

[Lucas_From_Hell]

I'm left-handed, and I don't have any problem at all with joystick.

Thing is, I learned to do it with the right hand (same for gutar, but this is totally OT :-P) It's just more practical, anyway.

And, as they said, ever say an aircraft made for left handed :mrgreen: ?

[Chivas]

I ordered the G940 today and should see it by the end of the week. I did it with some trepidation, after reading both good and bad comments, but realize one man's junk is another man's treasure. I've bought almost every other joystick made and the only one I use is the MSFF2 joystick, but I'm tired off making it work with each new OS I install.

Currently using
MSFF2 joystick (very precise and adjustable spring tension)
Cougar Throttle (by far the best on the market)
Saitek Pro Rudders (toe breaks are great)

Backups
Ch Fighter Stick (solid stick, but its slightly clunky gimbals, made it not quite as accurate as others)
Saitek Aviator (precise with smooth gimbals)
Cougar Joystick (very clunky gimbals, good for bomber pilots only) unless modded
Simped rudder pedals (solid product)

Current junk
X52 (deadzone made it unusable if your used to hitting what you shoot at)

[JG301_HaJa]

Hi,
had the G940 for som edays now and I'm overall very pleased with the quality and operation.
There is one gripe though and it's not the stick :). The forces in IL-2 is not very good and I have problems adjusting the stick to them.

However as there is a lot of new HOTAS hardware in the making I trust that future sims will have a better implementation of forces built in to the game.

If anyone has modded forces please PM me and we'll have a chat about it :)

regards
HaJa

[TheGrunch]

If anyone has modded forces please PM me and we'll have a chat about it :)
Have you tried the user-made .eff files on Mission4today, HaJa? I'm intending to get the G940 myself to replace my dying 5-year-old X45, and I'm curious as to whether they produce any improvement. I've looked at them in Microsoft's fedit program and one of them does seem to have a different spring effect with friction modeled that might reduce the weedy forces near the centre.

[JG301_HaJa]

Will have a try on those :)
Yes to complete lack of speed induced higher forces produce a terrible mushy center and it is a major drawback.

Will let you know as soon as I've tried.

regards

[JG301_HaJa]

Tried both forces and it's better but not to my liking :)
However the manin culprit here is the G940 drivers which doesn't allow for forces passing over
the center. This mean that there is no forces in the center of the stick and for me this is a big con but also the only con I've found.

It means that you will not have the realistic heavy motion when the speed picks up in the center part och motion but instead a limp feel. I think they've done this to protect the stick but I would like them to narrow the froce "deadzone".

And don't confuse this with a normal deadzone with no input because this stick hasn't got a deadzone. It register every minute input :)
But that is for me also a problem when the forces isn't availiable in the center.

regards

hope I made sence here :)

[TheGrunch]

hope I made sence here :)
Aye, perfect sense. :)
I've looked at most of the force feedback files in fedit, the Microsoft force editor program that opens the .eff files, and there's only one of the files on mission4today that changes spring.eff, which I guess is the centering force, to add an inertia effect...I wonder whether adding a friction effect would allow there to be at least some basic feel of mechanical resistance in the force feedback around the centre? I'd love to try it out, but I don't have an FFB stick at uni, I'm afraid.
It's not going to put me off getting the G940, to be honest, because the feel around the centre will still be better than my X45, but I'm just wondering whether it can be fixed in these .eff files or not. The major problem, I think, is just that the sim uses these simple .eff files designed purely to work with old Microsoft controllers and no others.

[JG301_HaJa]

Hi again :)

I think this can be overcome by the daidalus team if they want to! What should be done is this:
Since the forces currently availiable in IL-2 starts a bit in to the travel of the stick a base force simulating the resistance of wires and mechanical linkage must be added. This force should be applied all the time since it is a part of everything that happens with the rudder surfaces even on the tarmac. Infact the rudders should hang when standing still and engine not running on these old birds :)

This base force should be very low but high enought to push the stick into centre position when no other forces is affecting it.

This is no problem to do since the ffb tool allow for making own forces but where to tell the game to use it is something that maddox or TD must cooperate :)

regards

EDIT: and it mustn't be to hight to spoile the limp effect that should occur in a situation where the flow over the controls briefly stops.